Help with Seth Thomas mantel clock

[MikeEll]

Sounds like you need a professional to take a look at this.  Almost certainly, the clock needs to be disassembled and repaired.  If you do attempt it, ensure that you remove power from the mainspring before you take anything apart.  

I'm available in the UK if you need me to look at it.  PM me.

[tyl]

Like a #2/0 which I just looked up?

If this is just a friction fit gear, could I possibly just pry it off the main arbor and address the crack?

Edited February 17 by tyl
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[MikeEll]

1 hour ago, tyl said:

[...] If this is just a friction fit gear, could I possibly just pry it off the main arbor and address the crack?

It is possible to pry it up, but there's a risk of damaging it further.  The normal method would be to disassemble the clock and then drive the center-wheel arbour through while supporting the plate properly.  

[tyl]

Minute hand no longer moves.  Arrgh.

 

Moving again after I gave it a couple of clonks on my desk.  Pretty wonky.

Edited February 17 by tyl

[MikeEll]

follow the center-wheel back into the clock.  Do you see a spring washer on the wheel?

[tyl]

Can anyone suggest a beginners kit of tools?

 

Thx.

Mike - this?

[MikeEll]

its hard to tell from the pictures, but I suspect that winding stem at the rear of the clock does two things.  The outer winder obviously winds the clock right. but the inner knob should allow the hands to be adjusted.  It may be seized.  You could try getting some penetrating fluid or clock oil down that shaft.  

[tyl]

That is correct.  The outside wing nut winder does in fact wind the spring(s).  The inner knob moves the hands.  Both seem to have been working properly.  Will oil; cannot hurt.

 

Has now been oiled.

Edited February 17 by tyl

[watchweasol]

Hi Neven’ s eyesight is better than mine but when expanded there is indeed a crack which accounts for the lack of friction and drive. Needs a new opinion. So the clock has to come apart , it will in all probability require a new center wheel  and pinion due th the fact of wear on the arbour. Next problem is acquiring parts.

regarding tools , a decent set of screwdrivers  not neccerily watchmakers , pliers  snipe nose , square nose, small spanner’s and some windles clock oil for once it’s fixed. That’s just the basics , as you progress you can pick up what you need.

[tyl]

What is significance of spring washer on main arbor?

I sense a general discomfort with just gluing the pinion to the arbor???

[MikeEll]

there should be enough friction to drive the clock under power from the main spring, but it should also allow you to move the hands independently using the adjuster.  The hands should rotate correctly with one turn of the hour hand for every 12 turns of the minute hand.  If the friction fit pinion is cracked, it may rotate occasionally but not reliably with the center arbour.  It may have been broken due to incorrect fitting methods previously.  Either way the clock needs to be stripped and inspected properly

[tyl]

Ouch.  What is the general consensus about putting a spot of glue on the pinion?   

Summation:

1) clock runs

2) minute hand adjusts freely with knob and sometimes does/sometimes does not move when the clock is working.  Hour hand never moves due to crack in main arbor pinion.

3) pinion on main arbor is cracked and has no friction with main arbor.  Must be replaced or repaired.

[nevenbekriev]

I hope You understand that the small broken pinion is responsible for not moving the hour hand, but not regular moving the minute hand is completely different problem that really needs disassembling of the movement to be solved.

[tyl]

Yes, understand. However I am reluctant to take it apart as a novice.  If I can just replace the pinion, I might be happy.  The minute hand is for sure wonky and has a mind of its own.

Thank you for spotting the crack.  Even though it is there, I could not see it with the bare eye.  Had to magnify but it is there.

What do you think about trying to pry the pinion off or using glue (ignoring the fact that the minute hand does not always work)?

 

Thx.

[watchweasol]

Hi. Glueing it is not practical and wouldn’t last five minutes,, if you can find a pinion the right size may be and only maybe it might work but the real answer it has to be dis assembles . There may be other things worn  you can only find by taking it apart and inspecting it carefully. The job is not insurmountable if you take pictures and notes as you dis assembles it. It will take a bit of patience though And time. As the movement is time only it’s reasonably simple to do.  If you decide to have a go there is plenty of help from the site members to get you through.

[tyl]

Will give it a thought.

 

Thx.

[MikeEll]

might be able to solder repair that pinion, but it will need removing.  

[tyl]

Gathering tools and fortitude.  Looking for anything on Youtube.

[MikeEll]

we can certainly guide you through the process.  Before you get in too deep, though, top tip - don't disassemble anything until you've removed the power from the mainspring.   Otherwise, you'll either injure yourself or damage something.

Edited February 19 by MikeEll

[tyl]

It appears to be a Seth Thomas 358 from an inside stamping.  After watching every Youtube video that I could find yesterday, this morning I took it apart.  Was not sure how to relieve the mainspring so I removed the half moon plate, then removed the nuts to the three studs and the mainspring relieved itself (to my surprise); I do not believe it was wound up much.  Still do not know how to relieve but see a black metal sliver (bottom of pic 5) and wonder if this is it?

The small gear in pic 8  (see arrow)- cannot remember where it goes.  Cannot find any residual marks to show where it might go.

The main arbor does not seem to come out unless the twist cap can be unscrewed.  Tried gently to no avail.  Main arbor has slightly less than 1/8 inch of play.  (lately unable to get minute hand to move at all)

Because the time gears seemed to work properly, I did not remove them.  I assume they are under the small plate behind which I see the hairspring and balance wheel.  Trepidation.

Pics attached.  Do not know where to go from here.

Appreciate any help.

Edited February 19 by tyl

[AndyGSi]

Just a clip showing the teeth are now all shot, possibly due to not letting the mainspring down.

[RichardHarris123]

2 minutes ago, AndyGSi said:

Just a clip showing the teeth are now all shot, possibly due to not letting the mainspring down.

Good spot Andy, I wish @tyl had asked how to let down the mainspring .

[oldhippy]

I decided to stay away from this one but I have been reading all the help and suggestions. Very good they have been.

Unless you are prepared to spend out big money and have a wheel cut I’m sorry my friend you have come to the end of the road. I say this because this is not a popular movement here in England but in the USA you have a better chance picking up another movement or the parts you need.   

[watchweasol]

Hi. It does seem a bit of a bad end for sure, the standard advice before working on clocks is power down the move ment. Many a clock has suffered like yours either by not doing so. Or mainspring breakage due to a power surge. The wheel Iam afraid looks like it’s not recoverable. Two possibilities come to ming as finding another wheel is remote, one is to remove the damaged section and graft in a replacement section of wheel with the same pitch. Not doable by you at all and the other is to Ger a new wheel cut , probably cost more than the clock is worth. A sad end.

[AndyGSi]

44 minutes ago, oldhippy said:

I decided to stay away from this one but I have been reading all the help and suggestions. Very good they have been.

Unless you are prepared to spend out big money and have a wheel cut I’m sorry my friend you have come to the end of the road. I say this because this is not a popular movement here in England but in the USA you have a better chance picking up another movement or the parts you need.   

I know it's a long shot as a lot of them are bent further than I would like to see but do
you think it's possible with a tube and maybe a little heat they could be straightened?