Help decoding & part ID

[dnhb]

I've been asked to look at a small platform escapement mantle clock because "it keeps stopping". On receipt it stopped within a few minutes when placed upright but ran until wound down when on its face or back. Now it runs upright without stopping. It seems that the platform has been replaced by one that isn't the same as the original (see photo - I've added the white plastic sleeve to allow the hands to be moved).

The 2nd photo shows a label on the inside of the back cover with a previous repairer's shorthand which I'm hoping someone can decode for me.

It also shows a broken part that came with the clock - would this have been part of the original platform unit?

Compliments of the Season to all.

[RichardHarris123]

Total guess, mainspring, overhaul and escapement? 

[nevenbekriev]

The broken piece is part of regulator. If it was from the original platform You will never know. For sure this platform is not original to the movement.

[oldhippy]

What an utter mess.

Wrong size platform that has been in- correctly fitted. This has been taken from another movement you can tell by the mess of the screw fixing holes. Sounds as if it could be a depth problem. I need to see the whole works to see If I can spot something.  I wish you could prove that it had been sabotage by those whose name is on the ticket. I can assure you he is no master clock maker but incompetent. That part is a part of a regulator but not from this platform.

Edited December 26, 2024 by oldhippy

[RichardHarris123]

Still in existence. 

 

[nevenbekriev]

Actually... the regulator of the platform on the picture is broken. So this piece comes from there.

 

 

[Klassiker]

14 hours ago, oldhippy said:

he is no master clock maker but incompetent.

It's worrying then that he is on the BHI accredited clock repairers list.

[oldhippy]

This is strange. After Richards post I thought I know of that person so I went to his web site and thought something fishy here. I have watched his videos and interviews and seen his work and I must say no way would he have done this sort of thing. He is highly respected in clock making. 

[watchweasol]

Well it isn’t pretty that’s for sure, Iam sure somebody else has had a go, the  label maybe his but I wouldn’t blame him for that crap job. If he is accredited to the BHI no way would he produce work of that natureents.

[oldhippy]

The ticket I have worked out as follows apart from M C T

Date November 2016. O/h = overhaul M/S =mainspring. ‘scap’ = Escapement

Ref No is the ticket number which the owner would get. Smith is the owner’s name.

Service due November 2021

[Neverenoughwatches]

22 hours ago, RichardHarris123 said:

Total guess, mainspring, overhaul and escapement? 

I think you loosened the lid on the jar for someone with that

Edited December 27, 2024 by Neverenoughwatches

[dnhb]

On 12/27/2024 at 8:44 AM, oldhippy said:

This is strange. After Richards post I thought I know of that person so I went to his web site and thought something fishy here. I have watched his videos and interviews and seen his work and I must say no way would he have done this sort of thing. He is highly respected in clock making. 

The clock was passed to me by an intermediary a few days ago & because it's been Xmas I've not yet spoken to the owner (& I've not been allowed by SWMBO to examine it closely myself!). As a reputation is involved here, I will report back when I've done so.

22 hours ago, watchweasol said:

Well it isn’t pretty that’s for sure, Iam sure somebody else has had a go, the  label maybe his but I wouldn’t blame him for that crap job. If he is accredited to the BHI no way would he produce work of that natureents.

Cf my response to OH in this reputational issue.

On 12/27/2024 at 7:57 AM, Klassiker said:

It's worrying then that he is on the BHI accredited clock repairers list.

Please see my response to OH.

On 12/26/2024 at 5:36 PM, oldhippy said:

 Sounds as if it could be a depth problem. I need to see the whole works to see If I can spot something.  

I've now been able - in a quiet moment! - to get a couple of shots of the movement (The back plate indicates it's French). I've circled, in the 2nd one, the break in the regulator ring which seems to match that of the broken part shown in my initial post.

[dnhb]

Having now spoken to the owner I understand that the 'cuckoo' of an escapement platform was already fitted when the owner inherited the clock but it was not running at all at that stage. In overhauling it etc [thanks for the decodes, folks] the Clockmaker (Taylor) found the broken part of the regulator ring in the case. On return the clock ran (slow of course) for ~ 18 months & then stopped. On trying to claim against the guarantee that had been given, the owner was told that the clock had "obviously been dropped" which the owner denied. There the matter rests. I have found a replacement regulator which looks like it might fit & the owner has asked me to explore this possibility. However, the work is at the edge of my comfort zone: I have previously disassembled a balance assembly but in that case the regulator etc was secured via 2 screws under the cock whereas this one seems to be a press fit via 2 studs. Also, the gap (arrowed) in the ring bearing the stud arm suggests that it needs to be pressed onto the central pivot jewel  boss. Before I go any further I'd appreciate advice e.g. as to whether the stud arm ring can be gently prized off from the top of the staff or whether the boss can/should first be removed.

[watchweasol]

Hi. The regulator will pise off . I would remove the balance from the cock before attempting any work and if you decide to. Prise it off ,do it in a plastic bag to minimise the flyers.

Attached some info on platform escapement repair

David la bounty on platforms.pdf

[dnhb]

On 12/29/2024 at 3:10 PM, watchweasol said:

Hi. The regulator will pise off . I would remove the balance from the cock before attempting any work and if you decide to. Prise it off ,do it in a plastic bag to minimise the flyers.

Attached some info on platform escapement repair

David la bounty on platforms.pdf 236.56 kB · 3 downloads

Very kind of you to look out & attach the article which has not only given me more confidence but also taught me that one can/ should rotate the regulator 'boot' to release/recapture the hairspring! Fortunately it's stud pushed out easily & it & the balance are somewhere safe but I've yet to get anywhere with the prising operation - the boss seems very firmly seated. However my efforts have so far released the other part of the regulator (see photo) & now I'm wondering if this is repairable....

[RichardHarris123]

Post a photo of the other side. 

[oldhippy]

That piece has broken.  Agree with it being French. I cannot understand Taylor leaving the movement with that poor fitted platform unless the customer didn't what to pay for a proper size platform. I still think it could be a depth problem I admit it is a job to see the teeth that run with the escape wheel, that is what you need to look at.   

[dnhb]

On 12/30/2024 at 4:40 PM, RichardHarris123 said:

Post a photo of the other side. 

Thanks for your interest: photo of obverse attached. Notes: the previous photo shows that the 'pin' opposite the regulator boot has been broken off; and the (broken) ring is not contiguous with the regulator lever which,  on the basis of my v limited experience, surprised me - so it's not clear to me how the lever would rotate the ring.....

[RichardHarris123]

I might be stating the obvious but does the regulator arm need rotating so the centre part alignes?

[oldhippy]

When it is working correctly moving the tail auto moves the part that has broken, but you can also move it manually.  It is just friction that works it. 

Edited January 1 by oldhippy

[watchweasol]

Hi.  I have done this before on watches, the stud arm comes off and the regulator arm lifts off.  Screwdriver in the slot opposite the stud and open carefully as it’s hard, it should lever off leaving the regulator arm.   From the underside there looks to be two screws ?.

[dnhb]

17 minutes ago, RichardHarris123 said:

I might be stating the obvious but does the regulator arm need rotating so the centre part alignes?

Well, I've just tried that but the arm doesn't move the part you've indicated. Nor can I move it directly at least with the (small) amount of force I've tentatively applied (c.f. if one doesn't know a door *will* push open....!).

26 minutes ago, watchweasol said:

Hi.  I have done this before on watches, the stud arm comes off and the regulator arm lifts off.  Screwdriver in the slot opposite the stud and open carefully as it’s hard, it should lever off leaving the regulator arm.   From the underside there looks to be two screws ?.

I was wondering whether to try that but from what I can see (photo) the stud arm ring sits under a flange which makes me worried that the ring will snap before being released (especially given what's happened to the regulator ring). As far as I can see there are no screws (as indeed there were on the other balance cock I've disassembled) & my assumption is (based on other comments & the apparent pointlessness of thus 'burying' the screws) that the assembly should lift off the brass base. As previously reported I've yet to devise a successful approach to the necessary prising operation!

[oldhippy]

   You should always have the regulator lined up dead centre to start the timing proses

[dnhb]

On 1/1/2025 at 12:55 PM, dnhb said:

Well, I've just tried that but the arm doesn't move the part you've indicated. Nor can I move it directly at least with the (small) amount of force I've tentatively applied (c.f. if one doesn't know a door *will* push open....!).

I was wondering whether to try that but from what I can see (photo) the stud arm ring sits under a flange which makes me worried that the ring will snap before being released (especially given what's happened to the regulator ring). As far as I can see there are no screws (as indeed there were on the other balance cock I've disassembled) & my assumption is (based on other comments & the apparent pointlessness of thus 'burying' the screws) that the assembly should lift off the brass base. As previously reported I've yet to devise a successful approach to the necessary prising operation!

Coming back to this after being busy on other things, I have managed to prise the stud/ regulator assembly apart by a little gentle tapping on a craft knife blade once I'd found the right spot to position it. So it now seems (to me) worthwhile to think about how I could possibly reconnect the two arcs of the broken regulator arm. I'm wondering if solder would be strong enough or whether braising would be necessary; or if there is any other approach to securing the functional regulator element to the balance cock. I'd be grateful  for suggestions....

[watchweasol]

As the regulator is made of sprung steel any prolonged heat will anneal it and make it soft , laser welding such as carried out by He tor  would probably work.  But where you would get it done other than at a friendly jeweler I know not. Probably best sourcing a doner watch on eBay if possible.