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Installing new balance complete in a Unitas movement

BFernandes
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BFernandes Member

BFernandes

Posted
Posted

Hi all,

My "practice" watch has a worn our balance pivot, so I ordered a balance complete. Pieces nr 4871 for Unitas 6310.

It's probably no big deal, but my original balance wheel has plenty of screws or similar protruding all around, while the new one I got doesn't.

What's the purpose of these thingies?

I haven't installed it yet, maybe next week.

Thanks

WIN_20240430_18_10_32_Pro.jpg

WIN_20240430_18_09_10_Pro.jpg

nevenbekriev Distinguished Member

nevenbekriev

Posted
Posted

The balance with the screws is older technology, which was abandoned with the evolution of watchmaking. The screws can be replaced for regulation of the moment of inertia and poising.

The old balance seems to me to be for movement which was not shock protected, and the new one for sure is for shock protected movement. So, it makes me doubt if You will be able to use this new balance. Sorry, welcome to the world of watch repairs...

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BFernandes Member

BFernandes

Posted
  • Author
Posted
55 minutes ago, nevenbekriev said:

The balance with the screws is older technology, which was abandoned with the evolution of watchmaking. The screws can be replaced for regulation of the moment of inertia and poising.

The old balance seems to me to be for movement which was not shock protected, and the new one for sure is for shock protected movement. So, it makes me doubt if You will be able to use this new balance. Sorry, welcome to the world of watch repairs...

Thanks for the input! It's definitely interesting to see if this fits.

When I bought it, the ad states that it's compatible with the following movements:

  •  Unitas 510, 
  •  Unitas 520,
  •  Unitas 630,
  •  Unitas 6310,
  •  Unitas 6310 Inca,
  •  Unitas 6365 Inca,
  •  Unitas 6470 Inca

So, is it posible for this balance complete to work in both shock protected and non-sp movements?

Neverenoughwatches Distinguished Member

Neverenoughwatches

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, BFernandes said:

 

 

1 hour ago, BFernandes said:

Thanks for the input! It's definitely interesting to see if this fits.

When I bought it, the ad states that it's compatible with the following movements:

  •  Unitas 510, 
  •  Unitas 520,
  •  Unitas 630,
  •  Unitas 6310,
  •  Unitas 6310 Inca,
  •  Unitas 6365 Inca,
  •  Unitas 6470 Inca

So, is it posible for this balance complete to work in both shock protected and non-sp movements?

But here there are two variations of the 6310, the staff height will be different 

3 minutes ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

 

But here there are two variations of the 6310, the staff height will be different 

There are actually at least four variations of staff heights 

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JohnR725 Distinguished Member

JohnR725

Posted
Posted
5 hours ago, BFernandes said:

When I bought it, the ad states that it's compatible with the following movements:

  •  Unitas 510, 
  •  Unitas 520,
  •  Unitas 630,
  •  Unitas 6310,
  •  Unitas 6310 Inca,
  •  Unitas 6365 Inca,
  •  Unitas 6470 Inca

So, is it posible for this balance complete to work in both shock protected and non-sp movements?

cross referencing parts can be such an interesting so the UT 6310 at least according the parts list is supposed to have some form of shock system for the balance wheel.

http://cgi.julesborel.com/cgi-bin/matcgi2?ref=UT_6310

image.png.71f22ddeae833ab4907e0baa5102082c.png

4 hours ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

There are actually at least four variations of staff heights 

I don't know if the staff heights vary because they're all listed in the same place but there are four separate balance staffs depending upon the type of balance wheel you have. So for instance the balance wheel with screws like yours would use a different staff than one without screws but there's only one listing for one balance complete so Balance complete should fit the watch regardless of which type it is.

Basically it indicates that there was an evolution of this watch the older balance wheel with screws than the newer type without.

image.png.07d0b8ce10ddde71fbb4a93bf0476346.png

 

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Neverenoughwatches Distinguished Member

Neverenoughwatches

Posted
Posted
4 hours ago, JohnR725 said:

cross referencing parts can be such an interesting so the UT 6310 at least according the parts list is supposed to have some form of shock system for the balance wheel.

http://cgi.julesborel.com/cgi-bin/matcgi2?ref=UT_6310

image.png.71f22ddeae833ab4907e0baa5102082c.png

I don't know if the staff heights vary because they're all listed in the same place but there are four separate balance staffs depending upon the type of balance wheel you have. So for instance the balance wheel with screws like yours would use a different staff than one without screws but there's only one listing for one balance complete so Balance complete should fit the watch regardless of which type it is.

Basically it indicates that there was an evolution of this watch the older balance wheel with screws than the newer type without.

image.png.07d0b8ce10ddde71fbb4a93bf0476346.png

 

I only looked at the balance staff site which showed four height variations and hub positions possibly down to different length pivots . 3 of them were very similar and a supershock variation that was very different.  So maybe this one will fit with a slight adjustment ( I'm not going to mention the words 'shimming the cock' i dont think i can handle that today 🙂 )

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praezis Distinguished Member

praezis

Posted
Posted
11 hours ago, BFernandes said:

When I bought it, the ad states that it's compatible with the following movements:

  •  Unitas 510, 
  •  Unitas 520,
  •  Unitas 630,
  •  Unitas 6310,
  •  Unitas 6310 Inca,
  •  Unitas 6365 Inca,
  •  Unitas 6470 Inca

So, is it posible for this balance complete to work in both shock protected and non-sp movements?

With luck even possible to fit your 13 lin. movement at all 😀.

Those numbers are from 5 1/4, 8 3/4 and 13‘‘‘ sizes, with very different balance wheels!

Frank

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Neverenoughwatches Distinguished Member

Neverenoughwatches

Posted
Posted
12 minutes ago, praezis said:

With luck even possible to fit your 13 lin. movement at all 😀.

Those numbers are from 5 1/4, 8 3/4 and 13‘‘‘ sizes, with very different balance wheels!

Frank

Who'd have thought to look at the supposed compatible calibres ?  🤔 Frank did 😅

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JohnR725 Distinguished Member

JohnR725

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

only looked at the balance staff site which showed four height variations and hub positions possibly down to different length pivots . 3 of them were very similar and a supershock variation that was very different.  So maybe this one will fit with a slight adjustment ( I'm not going to mention the words 'shimming the cock' i dont think i can

image.png.0984a987b56bab3215b53c0daee90453.png

then just as I want to see if there is any differences I looked in the balance staff book. So basically with the exception of the super shock whatever that is it looks like they're close enough in length  they should be fine.

 

image.png.7ee4c782adec26cb970f6f3140b6bc65.png

 

 

BFernandes Member

BFernandes

Posted
  • Author
Posted

So I grew a pair today and installed the balance complete. 😄

And it's ticking. I made a 5 seconds clip, but I don't know how to upload it.

I'll put some strap and wear it today to see how it works.

Have a great day!

WIN_20240501_12_40_25_Pro.jpg

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Neverenoughwatches Distinguished Member

Neverenoughwatches

Posted
Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, BFernandes said:

So I grew a pair today and installed the balance complete. 😄

And it's ticking. I made a 5 seconds clip, but I don't know how to upload it.

I'll put some strap and wear it today to see how it works.

Have a great day!

WIN_20240501_12_40_25_Pro.jpg

Haha, so you put your big boy pants on 👍😅.  Give it a day or so to settle in then regulate it again, will save you opening it back up again after you've worn it. 

Edited by Neverenoughwatches
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JohnR725 Distinguished Member

JohnR725

Posted
Posted

 

your balance wheel looks interesting in the watch and because it's at an angle it's changing things a little bit. in other words they hairspring is not centered between the regulator pin in the boot and I also noticed your terminal curve is lacking apparently by design? Because if you look in the second image you'll notice yes there's a terminal curve but not as aggressive a one as you normally see on watches at least most watches.

 

image.png.82ff48a337eae602dad3e7e35e9e3338.png

image.png.0ce4e284d54afa7674d866a4014ea0a3.png

then in all of your images it looks like the boot isn't quite back where it's supposed to be? out of curiosity how did you remove your balance complete and clear the regulator pin?

image.png.9208af1cf912c689ed773c0a6b4c27f1.png

then just in case you weren't aware it rotates out of the way so you can remove the balance complete without bending the pin. Then it's rotated back exactly 90° and yours looks like it's off by just a little bit in the original image and I'm assuming that you just been the pin out of the way?

image.png.a7292afd978e8cd5247e71ab952c3469.png

it's always interesting in horology is the variations in the things. Like the image I have above does have a terminal curve but not the most aggressive and yours is even less but that is the way the watch was made. Then the spacing between the regulator pin in the boot should be relatively small basically if you had two pieces of the thickness of your hairspring that's how much space should be there like in this image. But oftentimes watch manufacturers do not necessarily follow the rules

image.png.bd98c2bdc894f04fb2af93761efce811.png

 

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