Proper Position to Remove the Stem?

[Latetothegame]

Remember I’m new at this.  I have just recently learned that some watches REQUIRE that the stem be removed in a specific position.  Some wind, some date, some hand change. Apparently you can do serious damage to the keyless works pulling the stem in the wrong position.  I have removed and replaced the stem on my Chronosport Atlantis several times and honestly I’m not sure where it was when I pulled it out or put it back.  Does anyone know the correct position to remove the stem on an ESA 944.111 movement?  If not, is there a safest default position that I should use if not sure?  The good news is that my watch still works.  

Thanks.

[RichardHarris123]

No, not serious damage but in some movements the sliding pinion can drop out of place, making the insertion of the stem impossible without removing the dial.  I'm not sure which movements this affects, maybe someone could provide a list, until then, I always put the movement in set position. 

[HectorLooi]

I don't think it really matters for quartz movements as they have simpler keyless works which do not get accidentally displaced by inserting the stem.

The movements to be careful of are ETA 2824 and ETA 2836 and their families. If these are not put into the setting position, pushing the winding stem back in could cause the sliding pinion to tumble off its precarious perch and foul up the keyless works. Guess how I found out. 

[JohnR725]

17 hours ago, RichardHarris123 said:

No, not serious damage but in some movements the sliding pinion can drop out of place, making the insertion of the stem impossible without removing the dial.  I'm not sure which movements this affects, maybe someone could provide a list, until then, I always put the movement in set position. 

12 hours ago, HectorLooi said:

I don't think it really matters for quartz movements as they have simpler keyless works which do not get accidentally displaced by inserting the stem.

yes quartz watches have simpler keyless works but removing the stem in the wrong position can result in sometimes things relocating themselves and unfortunately that requiring disassembly to put things back. Fortunately sometimes with some quartz watches you don't even have to remove the movement from the case you can get at them from the backside once you remove the circuit board as a lot of times will be under the circuit board if you're lucky. Otherwise you'll have to remove the hands and dial to get at it that way.

17 hours ago, Latetothegame said:

ESA 944.111

then movement numbers are outstanding so we know what you're talking about but even better is a movement number and a picture. Often times people look at the picture and say oh and will give you an answer based on that similar to other things or in this particular case I can say oh I've seen this before. This is because in the world the watches they've made a lot of them. so complements of the Internet we have a picture of the movement yes it's vintage and there's a heck of a lot of plastic

18 hours ago, Latetothegame said:

I’m new at this.

as you're new to this I thought I would expand your question to something? I'm attaching three separate PDFs and I'm going to snipped out an image from one of them.

one of the problems that comes up and watch repair is service information is it available? The answer is sort of sometimes. For instance the 944.131 PDF you'll notice only has two pages of parts. Which conceivably for that document is all that it had as we would need the base caliber which will likely what it had more parts but even this one might have had an entire service procedure but a lot of times when they are converted the PDFs way back when they did not include any of the service information. So a lot of time she'll get parts lists only no service even though the service part did exist.

Then the 944.011 manual we get more information. We get the test procedure and of course the parts list but no servicing information.

then another confusion for newbies and watch repair is who made their watch? Watch companies that make watches don't always make their own movements they purchase them like Bulova we get the best manual of all and of course they gave it its own part number.

then if you look at the Bulova PDF right on the first page is a caution. There other cautions for removing the stem like the proper tool the push on the button to prevent the setting parts from relocating themselves

then on page 5 we get the caution which wasn't even one of your concerns. yes often times on watches you're not supposed to use pointy tools to push you should use a screwdriver as they designed it to limit how far you can push but only if you use a screwdriver. Often times you'll see the whole for pushing and there'll be a slot right in the middle to remind you to use a screwdriver rather than a pointy tool.

Bulova 2562.10.pdf 3918_ETA 944.011, 944.111_smaller.pdf 3920_ETA 944.131.pdf

[Latetothegame]

JohnR725, thanks so much for the amazing amount of information.  That must have taken a bit of time and effort and I appreciate it.  In addition to some great documentation which I have saved, I have some key takeaways from your comments which I’ll summarize here for the benefit of other new people:  

1.  Improper stem removal procedure may have knocked some parts (sliding pinion) out of place but most likely nothing is broken.  I may have to disassemble the watch and keyless works to fix things.

2. In the absence of clear direction, default to the set position (#3) for removing the stem (I understand that is your preferred approach only and not a general documented recommendation)

3.  When asking a question about a watch always include the movement number and a picture.  People who are not familiar with the movement number may be familiar with the movement by sight.  Also, identical movements can have different movement numbers.  
4.  Newbies need to learn how to distinguish the movement number and manufacturer from the watch manufacturer and model.  It’s the movement that matters.  
5. Available on line documentation is frequently saved in incomplete PDF files, with only portions of the parts lists and service information saved in the file.  This requires multiple searches to obtain the complete information.  
6. VERY IMPORTANT- don’t stick pointy things in screwdriver shaped holes.  I have a feeling this is going to come back to bite me.  I may have dislodged some keyless works parts. The setting lever to be precise.  Oh well, more experience disassembling.  
Thanks for taking the time to help me along the path.