Pocket watch hole jewels - remove for cleaning?

[GuyMontag]

I'm working on this Elgin grade 477 pocket watch. I've seen some folks on youtube that when they clean these, they first remove the cap jewels and then push out the hole jewels. Is it necessary to remove the hole jewels? One of the comments said that they removed them as they didn't want them to come out in the cleaning machine as they are not interchangeable and didn't want to mix them up. It seems to me that a friction fit jewel wouldn't be able to come out in the cleaning machine but I've never worked on a pocket watch before so was wondering if it is really necessary to remove the hole jewels before cleaning.

 

[Jon]

Firstly, everything you see on YouTube isn't the truth! And recommending removing these jewels prior to cleaning is a crock of.......

Don't remove the jewels, as it is far from necessary and I would be really surprised if the screws holding them in place came loose or even if they came out of the bridge or mainplate.

Just peg the jewels clean and maybe pre-clean the movement prior to putting it through your cleaning machine, if you are using one

[nevenbekriev]

Jon, I guess OP means the balance jewel settings.

Yes, they need to be removed, at least the cap stones settings, but it is easier to remove the both cap and hole settings together by pressing them from inside. !!! Never press the jewejs, only the metal 'bushes' they are setted in!!!

 

[GuyMontag]

33 minutes ago, Jon said:

Firstly, everything you see on YouTube isn't the truth! And recommending removing these jewels prior to cleaning is a crock of.......

Don't remove the jewels, as it is far from necessary and I would be really surprised if the screws holding them in place came loose or even if they came out of the bridge or mainplate.

Just peg the jewels clean and maybe pre-clean the movement prior to putting it through your cleaning machine, if you are using one

I was misunderstanding how the jewels on my watch are put together vs. in the videos I was watching. I thought that on this watch for the train of wheels, there was the cap jewel held in with screws and then a hole jewel. However, I just took one of the 'cap jewels' off and the entire setting came out with the jewel. So they are really just hole jewels but with the setting being held in with screws, so yeah, I can't see any reason to remove those before cleaning.  In the videos I watched they were actually cap jewels on top with hole jewels underneath.

 

The photo above is from a donor movement and on the actual watch the upper center jewel is cracked so I will need to replace that with the one from the donor. So when I put in the new center jewel, do I just press it in from the train side until it is flush with the plate?

 

1 hour ago, nevenbekriev said:

Jon, I guess OP means the balance jewel settings.

Yes, they need to be removed, at least the cap stones settings, but it is easier to remove the both cap and hole settings together by pressing them from inside. !!! Never press the jewejs, only the metal 'bushes' they are setted in!!!

 

Would this be the correct procedure for the upper balance jewel?
 

1. Remove the balance cock and then the hairspring and the two screws holding in the cap jewel
2. Flip the cock over and place it on the anvil of the jeweling tool
3. Lower the pusher and push out the setting with both the cap jewel and hole jewel
4. Oil the capstone and place the hole jewel on top
5. With the balance cock facing up on the anvil, place the setting in the hole and then drive home until flush with the top of the balance cock
6. Screw in cap jewel
7. Attach hairspring

Do I need to take any depth measurements before removing the balance setting?

[nevenbekriev]

7 hours ago, GuyMontag said:

Would this be the correct procedure for the upper balance jewel?

 

1. Remove the balance cock and then the hairspring and the two screws holding in the cap jewel
2. Flip the cock over and place it on the anvil of the jeweling tool
3. Lower the pusher and push out the setting with both the cap jewel and hole jewel
4. Oil the capstone and place the hole jewel on top
5. With the balance cock facing up on the anvil, place the setting in the hole and then drive home until flush with the top of the balance cock
6. Screw in cap jewel
7. Attach hairspring

Do I need to take any depth measurements before removing the balance setting?

Yes, but it is not obligatory to use jeweling tool at all. You just need wooden or plastic pusher with proper shape. You press the settings to the end when putting them on the bridge or plate, so no need to measure anything. Then, oiling may be done before or after assembling, depends of the method prefered. But, cleaning is the main reason for dissassembling, so it has to be done.

The setting of the central wheel... See, in american watches it is a matter of model and modification, but the setting sizes may be the same. In case of swiss watches, it is only great luck if You have the same size of setting from a donor.

Edited March 4 by nevenbekriev

[Jon]

15 hours ago, nevenbekriev said:

Jon, I guess OP means the balance jewel settings.

I agree, the balance caps need to be removed as you have described @nevenbekriev, but the wheel train jewels have an oil sink, so won't have a cap and they will stay in place. Maybe I wasn't clear in what I was saying or what jewels I was referring to.

 

14 hours ago, GuyMontag said:

Oil the capstone and place the hole jewel on top

I find with non shockproof jewels that placing the setting together and then oiling from the balance side and then pushing the oil through with a very fine honed down oilier works a treat, as capillary action sucks the oil through to the cap, rather than risking the oil moving as you place the cap back. It all depends on the way you like to do it as long as the results are the same. If you do it the way I have described and the oil doesn't suck through to the cap, then this tends to indicate that the gap between the top of the olive jewel that the balance staff passes through and the cap jewel is a little too big, which gives me a good gauge if the jewels and cap are in good order and will hold the oil in place like this picture form one of my lessons

[Corky]

Thanks for this image.  I'm a newbie and it answered a question that I had!  I just found this forum yesterday, and I'm ecstatic!