Broken balance wheel jewel?

[Markus080607]

My pocket watch only runs facing down. I could suspect that the axle was broke , but it seems firm when touched. When I flip the watch it runs too far, missing the pallet fork, and I have to take it out and re install it. Has run fine for 24h facing down. 

[RichardHarris123]

Maybe the bottom jewel is too deep, we need photos. 

[JohnR725]

1 hour ago, Markus080607 said:

My pocket watch

How many pocket watches do you own? I notice this interesting discussion at the link below and is It the same pocket watch?

 

 

 

[Markus080607]

3 hours ago, JohnR725 said:

How many pocket watches do you own? I notice this interesting discussion at the link below and is It the same pocket watch?

 

 

 

I own a bunch, so they are two different watches

4 hours ago, RichardHarris123 said:

Maybe the bottom jewel is too deep, we need photos. 

It is assembled right now. Do you need pictures of it disassembled? 

[JohnR725]

14 minutes ago, Markus080607 said:

It is assembled right now. Do you need pictures of it disassembled? 

Okay now that we know that there are two separate watches and we can see the watch which does help considerably because as I said there are literally thousands of styles a pocket watches out there and describing some other watch totally different than yours would not help with your problem at all.

One of the things that I like to do when servicing watches is not the case them up until I verify that they are running. In other words I usually leave the dial off so I can see the other side. I place it on the timing machine I look at the watch in a variety of positions to see if there's anything resembling a problem. Sometimes I'll leave the watch without the dial running overnight the see if it still running the next day and put it back on the timing machine. Then I put the hands and dial on think about Casing it up. Even then some watches a leave out of the case with the dial on and run them for a little bit just to make sure

So current status is this?

4 hours ago, Markus080607 said:

My pocket watch only runs facing down. I could suspect that the axle was broke , but it seems firm when touched. When I flip the watch it runs too far, missing the pallet fork, and I have to take it out and re install it. Has run fine for 24h facing down

Classically this would be a broken pivot, or some other pivot issue and or a jewel issue.

19 minutes ago, Markus080607 said:

Do you need pictures of it disassembled? 

We need a picture of the balance wheel out of the watch so we can look at the pivots and see what's going on

by the way it's a nice-looking watch.

[Markus080607]

12 hours ago, JohnR725 said:

We need a picture of the balance wheel out of the watch so we can look at the pivots and see what's going on

by the way it's a nice-looking watch.

I can try to do it later today, but I don’t have the knowledge to disconnect the hairspring so seeing anything on that side may be a challenge. Thank you! 

12 hours ago, JohnR725 said:

Okay now that we know that there are two separate watches and we can see the watch which does help considerably because as I said there are literally thousands of styles a pocket watches out there and describing some other watch totally different than yours would not help with your problem at all.

One of the things that I like to do when servicing watches is not the case them up until I verify that they are running. In other words I usually leave the dial off so I can see the other side. I place it on the timing machine I look at the watch in a variety of positions to see if there's anything resembling a problem. Sometimes I'll leave the watch without the dial running overnight the see if it still running the next day and put it back on the timing machine. Then I put the hands and dial on think about Casing it up. Even then some watches a leave out of the case with the dial on and run them for a little bit just to make sure

So current status is this?

Classically this would be a broken pivot, or some other pivot issue and or a jewel issue.

We need a picture of the balance wheel out of the watch so we can look at the pivots and see what's going on

by the way it's a nice-looking watch.

Could it be something with the regulator on the balance wheel staff. Is that why it turns too far? Should I try to flip it after it has been running non stop for 2 days? 

[JohnR725]

1 hour ago, Markus080607 said:

I can try to do it later today, but I don’t have the knowledge to disconnect the hairspring so seeing anything on that side may be a challenge. Thank you!

I think maybe we need to go back and determine what exactly are doing? You troubleshooting the watch but how much knowledge do you have one watch repair? If that answer is practically zero knowledge we might want to find something more practical to learn with as this is a nice-looking watch it with one of damage it learning how to fix watches

then I snipped out something from your image it looks like this thing that I circled should be a screw you unscrew it a little bit you do not take it out and then you can push the stud out. I wonder if I should circled the stud for you? This brings up a problem if you are trying to learn as you go practicing on a live patient this really isn't the best way to do this

 

[Markus080607]

2 hours ago, JohnR725 said:

I think maybe we need to go back and determine what exactly are doing? You troubleshooting the watch but how much knowledge do you have one watch repair? If that answer is practically zero knowledge we might want to find something more practical to learn with as this is a nice-looking watch it with one of damage it learning how to fix watches

then I snipped out something from your image it looks like this thing that I circled should be a screw you unscrew it a little bit you do not take it out and then you can push the stud out. I wonder if I should circled the stud for you? This brings up a problem if you are trying to learn as you go practicing on a live patient this really isn't the best way to do this

 

I see. I have practically zero knowledge nor tools, so that might be a bad idea. Should I try to adjust the balance staff? What does A and R mean? Should I try to turn it around, or do I risk damaging it? 
 

Thank you for all the help so far by the way! 

[tomh207]

17 minutes ago, Markus080607 said:

I see. I have practically zero knowledge nor tools, so that might be a bad idea. Should I try to adjust the balance staff? What does A and R mean? Should I try to turn it around, or do I risk damaging it? 
 

Thank you for all the help so far by the way! 

A & R stand for advance & retard for fine regulation once the watch is serviced and any issues remedied.

 

Tom

[JohnR725]

3 hours ago, Markus080607 said:

I see. I have practically zero knowledge nor tools, so that might be a bad idea. Should I try to adjust the balance staff? What does A and R mean? Should I try to turn it around, or do I risk damaging it? 

If you have zero knowledge or tools then doing anything on these watches will be very bad.

Then we don't adjust the balance staff until we evaluate what's wrong and then the problem adjusting isn't the right term. It was broken it has to be replaced that would present a challenge because that requires a lot of tools which conceivably you do not have. Then this is a vintage watch which means balance staffs are usually not available. This would mean additional tools like a watchmaker's lathe to make a balance staff. So very rapidly a whatever you're trying to do is going to become extremely expensive.