Omega T12.6 & T17 plating? Risks of U/S cleaner

[Knebo]

Hello folks, 

I usually clean my movement parts in an ultrasonic cleaner with three jars: 1. L&R 111; 2. and 3. L&R No3 rinse. I usually do 5min each. 

With one exception, this has worked very well for me. However, an AS574 from. The 1930s had started to loose it's plating during this procedure. 

Now, I'll soon my servicing two 1930s Omega movements: a 12.6 (or T12.6) and a T17. 

Since these watches/movements are very dear to me and also come form the 1930s, I'm scared to damage the plating like I did on the AS 574. 

1. Does anyone know what plating is used for the 12.6 and T17 movements? 

2. Any advice on the use of the L&R cleaners and the U/S for this specific situation/movements? 

To reduce risks, I was thinking to reducing the time in the U/S machine (e.g. 3 times 2min), or even switching entirely to a more manual benzine-soak-brush+IPA approach. 

Before I get crucified, please let me assure you that I have read all the posts in the general debate on U/S cleaners. I'm really looking for more specific insights regarding the type of plating, the era (1930s) or even the specific movements. 

 

[mikepilk]

I like to keep the ultrasonic to a minimum. As you have found, it can be destructive. Maybe you could reduce the rinse times?

I use Elma cleaners. The Elma product info sheets recommends 2-10 mins cleaning, and about 3 mins rinse. 

In the ultrasonic, I do jar 1, 5 mins clean, then jars 2 and 3, 3 mins rinse in each, and a final 30s rinse in IPA.  

This gets everything nice and clean for me, and I've never noticed any plate damage.

[Knebo]

Quick update:

With 4min cleaning and 2x 3min rinsing in the U/S and respective L&R products, the plating on the Omega T12.6 has stayed intact. 

[JohnR725]

On 8/16/2023 at 3:19 PM, Knebo said:

I usually do 5min each.

usually it's the cleaning solution that's the problem with the ultrasonic. The rinse should be relatively harmless and it shouldn't be a problem.

4 hours ago, Knebo said:

ith 4min cleaning and 2x 3min rinsing in the U/S and respective L&R products, the plating on the Omega T12.6 has stayed intact. 

when I was in school where we are continuously cleaning watches all day along the same watches all day long the machine had been taped so you couldn't go past four minutes on the cleaning. So I was thought that was a nice quantity of time and would always go maximum of four minutes. That I would usually do the same amount of time with the rinse because I don't think that's an issue.

also it depends upon your fluids and the instruction sheets but I've seen that you ideally should not elevate the temperature the cleaning fluids. Because my interpretation was by elevating the temperatures beyond room temperature that's equivalent to lengthening the time in the ultrasonic possibly even worse as it makes things much more aggressive but this depends upon the particular cleaning fluids you using and whatever machine you're using also.

 

 

[Knebo]

38 minutes ago, JohnR725 said:

ideally should not elevate the temperature the cleaning fluids

Indeed, I left it at room temperature. 

In other movements, I had experimented with temperatures up to 40 degrees Celsius (with L&R 111 and No3 cleaners/rinse). And up to 8min cycles. It didn't do any harm until that AS574... so yeah, from now on 4min (per cycle) at room temperature. 

 

38 minutes ago, JohnR725 said:

maximum of four minutes

Interesting! 

[JohnR725]

 

14 hours ago, Knebo said:

L&R 111

being curious about this looking at the website and noticed they recommend 3 to 5 minutes.

https://www.lrultrasonics.com/solutions/111-ammoniated-waterless-watch-cleaning-solution-112

14 hours ago, Knebo said:

It didn't do any harm until that AS574... so yeah, from now on 4min (per cycle) at room temperature. 

in the first school I was at the cleaning machine had a timer and you can go to 10 minutes. Serve you go to 10 minutes why not go there? Plus as an added bonus the way the ultrasonic worked of course it would heat up whatever you're cleaning addenda 10 minutes it would we warm probably fused a couple of minutes it probably wouldn't heat up that much but it did have a really big vacuum tube in the base. So I was learned my lesson when shiny pocket watch went in frosty pocket watch came out with a rather pretty blue colored solution. Then when I went to the other school the machine was taped over four minutes. Little is good but going too long and you're going to regret it one way or another. Fortunately I is able to polish the plates and make them look nice again. then in watch repair those painful lessons to remind us not to do that every again.

[mikepilk]

2 hours ago, JohnR725 said:

 

being curious about this looking at the website and noticed they recommend 3 to 5 minutes.

The recommendation for Elma WF Pro is  2-10 mins.  Do the professional cleaning machines use ultrasonic for the whole cleaning cycle?

I usually do 5 mins in the ultrasonic. I think I'll take your advice @JohnR725 and try 4 mins.

[JohnR725]

3 hours ago, mikepilk said:

Do the professional cleaning machines use ultrasonic for the whole cleaning cycle?

it probably depends upon a lot of factors including personal choice.

it also of course depends upon the cleaning machine.

for instance at the links below to separate cleaning machines that have ultrasonic. Notice in the specification it says ultrasonic for every cycle and for documentation you can download the manuals for these so out of the freedom manual we get recommended or the preprogram cycles. You'll notice that they use ultrasonic and every cycle.

http://lititzpp.com/freedom.php

http://lititzpp.com/matador.php

here's another cleaning machine where it's easier to figure out about the ultrasonic if we look at the video and I just snipped out an image. then yes this is an incredibly complicated machine with as far as I can tell everything is programmable in it.

https://youtu.be/4F67g_F_L14?si=-MszC1okUv-BmlZg

 

 

 

 

 

[Knebo]

Hello,

a late follow up.

So for two very old Omega movements from the 1930s, one T12.6 and one T17, I recently used the ultrasonic cleaner with one cycle of L&R 111 and tow cycles of L&R No3 rinse. Each cycle was reduced to 4min to be safe.

Both came out spotless without any damage to the plating.

I guess the AS574 where the plating came of was an exception and due to the excessively long US cycles, or simply prior damage to the plating.