Hamilton Swiss Quartz 742 movement question

[kd8tzc]

I have an older watch that was my Dad.  It was given to him in the late 1970's or early 1980's and something he wore all the time.  It still runs, but it is erratic at times.  Meaning, it it will work for some time, but then just stop.  I tap it and it starts running again.

It is a 6 jewel quartz watch, and I would like to restore it if possible.  The Outside of the watch is in very good condition (no scratches, etc), but I'm wondering if it would be better to just give it a new movement.  It has a datejust movement (day and date).

Anyhow, hoping someone might be able to tell me what movement I could put in this to keep is fairly true to its origins. 

[tomh207]

It looks like an ETA/ESA movement, in your first photo at the bottom of the movement next to the case screw it looks like there maybe a movement number there. 
Some ETA/ESA quartz movements look like they are still available from Esslinger.

 

Tom

[Marc]

According to Borel the Hamilton 742 is an ESA 963.111 which is discontinued although you may be able to track down a NOS unit somewhere. However Cousins has quite a lot of parts still available if you wanted to service the existing movement. As it does run though you may find that it just needs a good clean and relube, no parts necessary.

[JohnR725]

9 hours ago, kd8tzc said:

but it is erratic at times

Like any old timepiece it needs to be serviced from time to time. As it seems to run the servicing it would probably solve the problems. I'm also attaching some technical literature for the watch

936_ETA 963.111, 963.121.pdf

[kd8tzc]

Thanks all... I have noted the movement in my documentation.

Quartz watches have always perplexed me.  Are there any good walk through on how to service a quartz watch?  It would be nice to keep it all original if possible.

Thank you JohnR for the technical documentation.

[kd8tzc]

Can anyone tell me how I remove the stem and crown?  I know some of the ETA quartz movements have a little button to press, but I don't see anything on this one.  I do see the setting lever with a screw right over where the stem enters the watch... is that all I need to review?

[JohnR725]

3 hours ago, kd8tzc said:

do see the setting lever with a screw right over where the stem enters the watch... is that all I need to review?

You're seeing the right part and you could take the screw out but that's not what you're supposed to do. Notice the attached image look carefully at that part there is a little indent you push their

[kd8tzc]

Thanks!

[kd8tzc]

Any idea what that bar is (see image with green arrow pointing to it) is for?  It's coming off the circuit bard to the setting lever. 

[JohnR725]

2 minutes ago, kd8tzc said:

Any idea what that bar is (see image with green arrow pointing to it) is for

Usually on quartz watches when you pull the stem all the way out the circuit will turn to drive off for the coil. Basically it's a way of powering down the watch but the quartz crystal still keeps oscillating. So it's not a 100% off switch it just reduces the power.

 

[kd8tzc]

Okay, I thought it might have something to do with the current, but it seemed rather strange.  So this is like a hacking switch?

[JohnR725]

15 minutes ago, kd8tzc said:

So this is like a hacking switch?

Yes that is the hacking switch and yes it does affect the current. Because when the watches hacked the current she dropped to almost nothing. Even though it's almost nothing even when it's running.

[kd8tzc]

Okay thank you.  I have the watch completely disassembled.  I kept the rotor all by itself (and with brass tweezers).  I thought I heard something about either NOT cleaning the rotor in solution, or to clean it all by itself (due to magnetism)....

[kd8tzc]

Anyone know what new movement could be swapped easily for the ETA 963.111?  I took it apart, cleaned it, lubricated it, reassembled it, and it still has the same problem.  It seems to run fine for a bit then the second hand gets stuck (nothing is blocking it with the hands).

I think it would be best to just replace the movement at this point.  I could still try and figure out what may be wrong with the old movement, but if there is a new movement that would fit and work, that would be great.

I'm not sure if there is a lookup of what works with older movements.

[JohnR725]

3 hours ago, kd8tzc said:

I took it apart, cleaned it, lubricated it

How did you clean it and what did you lubricate the gear train including the rotor with?

Then I don't suppose you did a of electrical checks like check how much current the things consuming? Or a low voltage run to see how that does?

 

 

[kd8tzc]

I don't have a device to check any of the electrical items.

I used an ultrasonic cleaner on the parts that could go in it.  I first treated it in Ammonia for a five minute cycle, and then 99% IPA for 5 min.

For lubrication, I used Novostar L.  For parts that called for grease, I used Molykote DX.   I followed the following technical document that showed what should be lubricated.

The problem I am seeing is the second hand will tick for a while, and then it will still tick, but not advance a full tick... like it is stuck. 

 

 

Better Version_Hamilton 742_Dads_ORCO_Watch_936_ETA 963.111, 963.121.pdf

[JohnR725]

6 hours ago, kd8tzc said:

I don't have a device to check any of the electrical items.

I used an ultrasonic cleaner on the parts that could go in it.  I first treated it in Ammonia for a five minute cycle, and then 99% IPA for 5 min.

For lubrication, I used Novostar L.  For parts that called for grease, I used Molykote DX.   I followed the following technical document that showed what should be lubricated.

the problem with quartz watches are you really do need to test equipment to run the tests to see if you have problems. Not just electrical problems but mechanical problems. In other words you could check the current consumption and see if you have too much friction which can occur if you don't lubricate the watch correctly or you didn't clean the watch correctly in the first place. You can also do something similar with the low-voltage run so without electrical test equipment which unfortunately is specialized for super low power and quartz watches well becomes problematic servicing base.

Then ammonia?

then ideally on quartz watches I like to use a special oil for the quartz watch which you don't have.

17 hours ago, kd8tzc said:

I think it would be best to just replace the movement at this point. 

oh and thinking a replacing the movement as it noticed from technical documentation typically places like cousins don't necessarily have the entire document because all they wanted was the parts lists. Side note is this what other watches where the servicing bulletin originally was way more pages but the material houses only have  a tiny section. In any case if you look at the technical literature it does specify the hand size also the movement size and the thickness of the op to find a similar movement of a similar thickness so it centers itself in the case and you know what the hands sizes are. It might be possible to email material houses and say I have one of these I want to replace it may be they have a cross reference.

The biggest problem when you're servicing a quartz watch is everything has to be absolutely perfect. When you're servicing a mechanical watch you can do all kinds of undesirable things and they typically will have the power to go through problems. But I quartz watch everything has to be perfect because it runs on super minimalistic power.

[kd8tzc]

So from it sounds like this watch needs to be relegated to a drawer then never to see the light of day again.  Okay, I guess.

[JohnR725]

56 minutes ago, kd8tzc said:

So from it sounds like this watch needs to be relegated to a drawer then never to see the light of day again.  Okay, I guess.

 

9 hours ago, kd8tzc said:

The problem I am seeing is the second hand will tick for a while, and then it will still tick, but not advance a full tick... like it is stuck. 

the problem is why is it stuck? You also lacking proper test equipment so they can't see how much current consumption the watches drawing. It's a problem of the quartz watch you do need the electrical test equipment.

When the secondhand is stuck if you give it a little push will it start up again? How long does it take to get stuck in does it always gets stuck in the same place. You could try putting the rotor in and maybe one of the gears and seeing if it would just run with that then if that works add another gear and keep adding until you finally reach where it stops. It's an interesting way to troubleshoot it takes a lot of time but if you don't have the right tools and equipment and knowledge it might be a way of isolating the problem.

[kd8tzc]

Okay, worth a shot.

Being that all the Quartz tools cost a fortune, and there are some that are inexpensive/"cheap" from China, are any okay enough for a hobbyist to do some testing?  I don't plan on doing much with Quartz watches, but this was one of my Dad's and I would love to get it working again.