My Watchmaker uses only one oil !!!

[Fralex]

A few days ago I spoke with my local watchmaker, who is a very good friend of mine. He is an old dude long overdue for retirement, but since he is the last watchmaker in town, he is still in business. While we were talking, we came across the topic regarding watch oils and I was really surprised by the things he said. He said to me that he does not use synthetic oils and actually uses only one oil for the whole movement (Moebius 8000) and one grease (Moebius 8300). He also said that he uses grease with graphite for automatic movements, but I could not see which.

He said to me that he is using the same type of oil since he was a young watchmaker in the '60s and that new synthetic oils have no real benefits. He said that synthetic oils are very hard to clean in a cleaning machine and also that mineral oils encourage customers to take their watches regularly for service because mineral oils gunk up after a couple of years slowing or stopping the movement altogether. That means less wear and more job for him. Do you think this is a bad practice or it actually makes sense?

P.S. Excuse my English, I am not a native speaker

[tomh207]

I think this might be the classic “we don’t do that here, it’s been fine for 50 years” attitude. All too common, people are resistant to change, just human nature. It doesn’t change the fact of life that things do change and best current practices change as we understand more about what we do. As a now retired professional in IT I have embraced those changes over the years, not everyone can.

 

Tom

[Klassiker]

I don't know about the cleaning machine, but the rest makes sense. He sounds like a reliable, pragmatic watch repairer, who does a decent job for his customers without costing too much. If he makes a living at it at the same time, so much the better. Of course, if he's charging Rolex prices, then that changes things!

By the way, your English is very good indeed. If you hadn't drawn attention to it, I'd have taken you for a native speaker.

[watchweasol]

Hi you have a very astute friend.  If his coustomers keep coming back to him he must be doing a great job.  give him my compliments.

[RichardHarris123]

Difficult one.  Sometimes people are living in the past and need to move on, sometimes the old way's are still valid.  

[Fralex]

1 hour ago, Klassiker said:

I don't know about the cleaning machine, but the rest makes sense. He sounds like a reliable, pragmatic watch repairer, who does a decent job for his customers without costing too much. If he makes a living at it at the same time, so much the better. Of course, if he's charging Rolex prices, then that changes things!

He is a funny guy, when I brought him my first watch for service (it was an old Seiko 5 with 7009 movement) he disassembled it in a matter of seconds. He just unscrewed every screw he could, turned the watch case over some bowl, and patted the case. The whole watch fell apart in the bowl. I was horrified. But the next morning when I came to pick up my watch it was working perfectly, and it continued to do so for years. Nobody ever complained about him, except my father.
My father said that he stole the Omega logo from the dial of his old Omega pocket watch 30 years ago, and my father likes to remind him of that every time they see each other

Watch service in my part of the world costs approximately 30$

 

2 hours ago, Klassiker said:

By the way, your English is very good indeed. If you hadn't drawn attention to it, I'd have taken you for a native speaker.

Thanks, I'm trying my best

[RichardHarris123]

18 minutes ago, Fralex said:

He is a funny guy, when I brought him my first watch for service (it was an old Seiko 5 with 7009 movement) he disassembled it in a matter of seconds. He just unscrewed every screw he could, turned the watch case over some bowl, and patted the case. The whole watch fell apart in the bowl. I was horrified. But the next morning when I came to pick up my watch it was working perfectly, and it continued to do so for years. Nobody ever complained about him, except my father.
My father said that he stole the Omega logo from the dial of his old Omega pocket watch 30 years ago, and my father likes to remind him of that every time they see each other

Watch service in my part of the world costs approximately 30$

 

Thanks, I'm trying my best

Agreed, your English is very good. 

[JohnR725]

13 hours ago, Fralex said:

He said to me that he is using the same type of oil since he was a young watchmaker in the '60s and that new synthetic oils have no real benefits. He said that synthetic oils are very hard to clean in a cleaning machine and also that mineral oils encourage customers to take their watches regularly for service because mineral oils gunk up after a couple of years slowing or stopping the movement altogether. That means less wear and more job for him. Do you think this is a bad practice or it actually makes sense?

This is kinda one of those he's right and he's wrong and it's outstanding he can get away with what he's doing. Then yes the problem with natural oils typically is not always they will get gummy and sticky. This is where you often find a vintage pocket watch that just needs cleaning because the oils went bad the watch stopped It was then put away in a box it's in perfect condition once it's cleaned. Although the there are getting farther and farther apart thanks to servicing with synthetic oils.

Synthetic oils conceivably could last forever but they might spread away from wherever there supposed to be. Or the worst is the gaskets disintegrate moisture gets in rust forms and it makes for a really nice grinding compound. Or basically a lot of people run their watches way way past the service time and discovered that the cost way more money to replace stuff that is disintegrated. Very common on older automatic watches where they don't necessarily have jewel bearings and the metal bearings don't hold up to running forever without lubrication.

So if you're in the right part of the world where you can get away with servicing somebody's watch every couple years and they don't complain outstanding. But in other parts the world where people get a Rolex serviced for instance and they pay hundreds of dollars and 2 1/2 three years and later they have to bring it back again versus maybe 4 to 5 years they might be a little cranky about that.

13 hours ago, Fralex said:

that new synthetic oils have no real benefits. He said that synthetic oils are very hard to clean in a cleaning machine

 

Oh I don't think the cleaning machines should be an issue. People run watches do the cleaning machine all the time's a synthetic versus natural naturals actually harder to clean especially if I got sticky with time.

Oh then there's the other amusing thing traditionally natural oils have better lubrication properties as far as reducing friction than synthetic oils. So you don't mind servicing a watch on  well basically extremely often then you get better properties with the natural. But depending upon your choices synthetic oil you can go much much longer service time the watch work just fine.

And of course he probably just doesn't embrace change and he's guaranteed income because  planned obsolescence of natural oils and his customers have to come back. It's a great business model if you can get away with it.

[Neverenoughwatches]

5 hours ago, Fralex said:

A few days ago I spoke with my local watchmaker, who is a very good friend of mine. He is an old dude long overdue for retirement, but since he is the last watchmaker in town, he is still in business. While we were talking, we came across the topic regarding watch oils and I was really surprised by the things he said. He said to me that he does not use synthetic oils and actually uses only one oil for the whole movement (Moebius 8000) and one grease (Moebius 8300). He also said that he uses grease with graphite for automatic movements, but I could not see which.

He said to me that he is using the same type of oil since he was a young watchmaker in the '60s and that new synthetic oils have no real benefits. He said that synthetic oils are very hard to clean in a cleaning machine and also that mineral oils encourage customers to take their watches regularly for service because mineral oils gunk up after a couple of years slowing or stopping the movement altogether. That means less wear and more job for him. Do you think this is a bad practice or it actually makes sense?

P.S. Excuse my English, I am not a native speaker

Mobius charts do list 8000 and D5 as general purpose oils and between the two can be applied to almost everthing in a watch. Bere in mind that mobius 8000 is a very thin oil with a lower viscosity of 9010 and may spread .

[JohnR725]

2 minutes ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

Mobius charts do list 8000 and D5 as general purpose oils and between the two can be applied to almost everthing in a watch.

You can find the specifications here

https://www.moebius-lubricants.ch/en/products/oils

3 minutes ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

Bere in mind that mobius 8000 is a very thin oil with a lower viscosity of 9010 and may spread .

Basically any time you have a thin lubricant they recommend epilam to keep it from spreading including for 9010. But usually for 9010 you have to use a little detective work to find that out it's not always obvious.

Or here's something interesting somebody else did some analysis  came up with this interesting chart. What makes it interesting is it starts off with  the natural oil which I believe is 8000 and you can see it as the best lubrication properties. But when you looking at those first two columns and did notice where Elgin is right behind very very close is a synthetic so synthetics can be good.

Then you get to the rest the chart on how fast they spread basically. Small numbers are good big numbers are very bad. But if you read the notes and providing you use some form of epilam to keep it in place then you get by with the oils that like to spread all over the place.

 

[Fralex]

1 hour ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

Mobius charts do list 8000 and D5 as general purpose oils and between the two can be applied to almost everthing in a watch. Bere in mind that mobius 8000 is a very thin oil with a lower viscosity of 9010 and may spread .

Well, Moebius does recommend Moebius 8000 for fast moving gears and Moebius 8141 for slow moving gears in standard watch movement sizes. At least as an alternative to synthetic oils. I was really surprised about Moebius 8141, isn't it oil for clocks?

[JohnR725]

2 hours ago, Fralex said:

I was really surprised about Moebius 8141, isn't it oil for clocks

You should read some of the other specifications for the other companies oils. I've seen oils that are superthin still recommended for clocks so thin that I wouldn't think that he would be suitable on a watch unless used epilam and yet it's listed as a clock oil.

Oh and your lubrication chart is out of date they have a newer lubrication chart. Looks like 8141 is about the same viscosity is D5 or HP 1300 so basically just a really heavy oil. Has is one of the 8000 series and obviously is not synthetic notice they give a three-year shelf life providing you don't open the Bottle then you only get one year once is open.

 

 

[Neverenoughwatches]

6 hours ago, Fralex said:

Well, Moebius does recommend Moebius 8000 for fast moving gears and Moebius 8141 for slow moving gears in standard watch movement sizes. At least as an alternative to synthetic oils. I was really surprised about Moebius 8141, isn't it oil for clocks?

Thats part of the chart i was looking at that listed 8000 and D5 could be used for nearly everything. It does make servicing very simple and cheap. But as John has mentioned short and regular service intervals would be important. Not sure it would be practical for those of us that have vast watch collections

[JohnR725]

23 hours ago, Fralex said:

my local watchmaker,

Out of curiosity what is the cost of having the local watchmaker service a watch?

 

[Fralex]

2 minutes ago, JohnR725 said:

Out of curiosity what is the cost of having the local watchmaker service a watch?

 

Around 30$

[JohnR725]

57 minutes ago, Fralex said:

Around 30$

The reason for asking the question is that if the costs of servicing a watch is it really low because the cost of living is probably or hopefully low in the country area and then you can get by with servicing the watch on a perhaps two-year basis.

If you were in a country where servicing a watch was considerably more expensive as I said somebody pays Let us say like $700 get the Rolex serviced then explained to them that because you using vintage oils every two years they do need their watch serviced see how cranky they're going to get.

The only way something like this works is if the cost of servicing is so low that people can in the location can afford to get the watch serviced every two years. Then the unfortunate consequence of extremely low prices can be typically watchmakers are afraid the charge enough to cover their cost of living. This is why often see a watchmaker basically work until they die because they have no money to live on.