Cannon pinion stuck, how can I remove it?

[GregG]

I have a J Calame Robert pocket watch that I am trying to service.  I've got the entire thing disassembled except for the center wheel and cannon pinion.  My trusty Presto tool was completely useless in this situation.  That cannon pinion is absolutely stuck on there.  I tried turning the movement over so that the center wheel was facing upwards, and I tried to maneuver my hand levers between the center wheel pinion and the movement plate.  I could tell that the hand levers were going to start to bend before the center wheel arbor was going to move.  I stopped so that I didn't break anything.  I tried a drop of oil in there to try to lubricate it, but that didn't help either.

My next attempt will be WD-40.  Does anyone have any other suggestions to try?

[JohnFrum]

Pin vice?

Can a scalpel blade fit under the pinion (as a wedge)?

 

Edited January 15, 2023 by JohnFrum

[GregG]

I'll try the pin vise.  But w/r/t the scalpel blade, I fear that that would be pushing it off to one side instead of somethign like the pin vise pulling equally all around.

Update, tried the pin vise. It just slid off.  Tried another pin vise, also slid off.  And I really cranked it down as hard as I could.

Then I tried my staking set to gently hammer the arbor out of the cannon pinion, but it wouldn't budge.  I left it soaking in lighter fluid for now maybe some gunk is gluing it shut.  If that doesn't work, then rust remover or WD-40.

[Malocchio]

How about acetone and ultrasonic?

[GregG]

12 minutes ago, Malocchio said:

How about acetone and ultrasonic?

I wouldn't directly ultrasonic acetone since it has a much lower flash point than lighter fluid, but I can certainly try a soak.

[JohnFrum]

Are you dealing with this type of cannon pinion? 

As opposed to the normal type?

from Fried’s Bench Practices

Edited January 15, 2023 by JohnFrum

[GregG]

48 minutes ago, JohnFrum said:

Are you dealing with this type of cannon pinion? 

As opposed to the normal type?

from Fried’s Bench Practices

Hi John, is there a way to distinguish between the two without trial and error?

[Malocchio]

5 hours ago, GregG said:

I wouldn't directly ultrasonic acetone since it has a much lower flash point than lighter fluid, but I can certainly try a soak.

Sure, flammable liquids should always be put in a glass container that goes in the ultrasonic water bath. That's how I use IPA. Also, the acetone fumes would be pretty brain melting if put straight in the tank.

[JohnFrum]

10 hours ago, GregG said:

Hi John, is there a way to distinguish between the two without trial and error?

Got zero experience with this but the head of the tapered pin should be distinguishable under magnification. 

[JohnR725]

11 hours ago, GregG said:

Hi John, is there a way to distinguish between the two without trial and error?

You don't need trial and error you look at it And instantaneously recognize it like I do. What are the clues? Notice the shape of the cannon pinion How solid it looks doesn't look like the normal kind and there's no place to grab it's very smooth. Then notice the protruding pin on the dial side that's your other clue that's the pin that you have to drive out. Then your images and good enough for the other side to see what we need to see.

Then I would put the plate back on holding the center wheel before driving the pin out. That way you'll avoid damaging things.

Then because this is a relatively common question I have pictures. The notice in my pictures I have two separate types. The easier to recognize because it has a squarehead it's a key set watch. The other one they just looks like the end of the standard large pivot kinda like yours. It's really hard to see where the actual head part is you should bill the CRs if you look really carefully.

 

[GregG]

After using the ultrasonic, I was able to see the seam between the center wheel and center pin, confirming that it's not the usual cannon pinion setup that you normally see.  The ultrasonic must have cleaned it up enough to loosen it, and I was able to stake out the pin.  Thank you for your help.