Chinese vs Swiss tools and sundries

[clockboy]

I have always wherever possible supported UK supply houses. However for the first time I ventured to “AliExpress” a Chinese based company. 

As a tester I ordered a lubrication oil stand what looked visually the same as I recently purchased from Cousins UK.

See pics below. The top one is purchased from Cousins the lower is the one purchased from “ AliExpress”

I can report both are identical in build apart from the “ AliExpress” has different coloured lids.

The difference is price.

Cousins including postage £28.94

AliExpress including tax and import tax £17.94

I do not know what the answer is but these savings for an amateur are worth considering. However the down sides are: 

It was 4 weeks + before delivery. 

Be aware Chinese tools have been reviewed many times and reported in the BHI mag and there is a difference. The biggest difference is the quality of metals used by the Chinese. Also their horological tools are just not built as precisely as the Swiss tools.

But for a keen amateur well worth a punt IMO. 

Edited December 28, 2022 by clockboy

[Paul80]

The other side is that some tools that are claimed to be made in Switzerland are actually made in China and packed in made in Switzerland boxes.

Some (but not all) Chinese tools look identical because they are identical.

Sometimes the savings are huge but sometimes it's not enough to justify the wait for the delivery, wait 4 weeks to save £5 maybe not but wait 4 weeks to save over £800, then yes every time.

You do have to be careful as the Chinese are prone to copy their own output and not quite get the quality right, but if you find a good seller a fortune can be saved.

Don't be fooled by the Swiss watch industry they can be quite a shady bunch at times.

[clockboy]

This has been stated on many occasions on this forum that the Swiss use China to make their tools. However I have not found any proof but it is plausible for sure. One example tested by the BHI was the Seitz jeweling tool compared to the Chinese clone. They certainly look the same but under tests they are not of the same quality in terms of build quality and materials used. 

[ifibrin]

5 hours ago, clockboy said:

This has been stated on many occasions on this forum that the Swiss use China to make their tools. However I have not found any proof but it is plausible for sure. One example tested by the BHI was the Seitz jeweling tool compared to the Chinese clone. They certainly look the same but under tests they are not of the same quality in terms of build quality and materials used. 

Could you scan a copy of the BHI article that compares the two jeweling tools? I’ve heard of that article mentioned a number of times, but have not found the article online.

[clockboy]

I have issues scanning the BHI mag pages. Conversation to rtf text files does not work for me. Probably because my iMac is old (2011) and the softwares available will not download on my ancient mac.  The other issue I have to be careful of is as a member of BHI I could be in trouble with the BHI for copyright.. 

[Paul80]

You won't find any evidence of their practices, they are too careful for that.

But buy a couple of their tools and a couple of the Chinese identical tools and do a comparison, they not only look like they came out of the same factory, same machining marks etc but the parts are also fully interchangeable, even the packaging is often the same. Just remember the Chinese are quite capable of high quality production that could easily put western factories to shame, which is why so many companies have their products made their.  It used to be because of price now it's because of the quality of the products they are quite capable of producing.

The likes of Bergeon may make many of their tools but they don't make them all. Their catalogues are too vast compared to their factory size, especially given that most of their published location is not all factory but mainly warehousing.

[markr]

Here is my cheap and dusty Chinese  case back opener.  Looks like they reached into the wrong box when putting it together.

Under Bergeon it says Swiss made.

[Neverenoughwatches]

31 minutes ago, markr said:

Here is my cheap and dusty Chinese  case back opener.  Looks like they reached into the wrong box when putting it together.

Under Bergeon it says Swiss made.

Haha that confirms it then. No bergeon for me

46 minutes ago, markr said:

Here is my cheap and dusty Chinese  case back opener.  Looks like they reached into the wrong box when putting it together.

Under Bergeon it says Swiss made.

Head of Bergeon tool developments --  " can we stop selling our tools to the Chinese please they keep copying them, look theres another one of our parts thats turned up ". 

[clockboy]

13 hours ago, Paul80 said:

You won't find any evidence of their practices, they are too careful for that.

But buy a couple of their tools and a couple of the Chinese identical tools and do a comparison, they not only look like they came out of the same factory, same machining marks etc but the parts are also fully interchangeable, even the packaging is often the same. Just remember the Chinese are quite capable of high quality production that could easily put western factories to shame, which is why so many companies have their products made their.  It used to be because of price now it's because of the quality of the products they are quite capable of producing.

The likes of Bergeon may make many of their tools but they don't make them all. Their catalogues are too vast compared to their factory size, especially given that most of their published location is not all factory but mainly warehousing.

Oh dear . Must say the Chinese movements for sure have improved in quality and basic tools as well. But there is a difference with certainly with the precision tools such as for jeweling.  When time I will find the BHI article and quote some of their findings.