Jump to content

Recommended Posts

Posted

Always on the lookout for low cost watch repair tools I stumbled across this listing

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005004628144533.html?spm=a2g0o.store_pc_allProduct.8148356.71.174f4787pUZBWU&pdp_npi=2%40dis!GBP!£36.29!£36.29!£36.29!!!!%402100bde716700878353065703e5863!12000029892500559!sh

A set of 10 mainspring winders with steel arbours for a mere £36.29 plus VAT and shipping, these have to be the cheapest set around, anyone tempted 😉 

Posted

Haha yeah I bought em. I've never had ms winders before so have nothing to compare them to. I'll update when they turn up and I get the chance to use them. 

Posted

I recently watched this video about that same winder set. It's really affordable and looks quite good, if only I had the information about the diameter and wind direction of those units...

 

 

Posted

They are for specific calibers, the listing says -

3135/2892/2824/7750/2671/2000/8500-1/8500-2/C07111/2235/8200

So, for instance, ETA 2892, 2824, 7750, Miyota 8200, etc. 

If you wanted to you could probably look up the specs for each movement to get the barrel ID,  and the wind direction. 

Posted (edited)

Welp, I got the cheap set in the mail this week, and I also got 4 spare seiko 7009a movements for parts, so a good time to break some more mainsprings.

They aren't bi-directional although I initially thought they were.

As said above, they're definitely made for specific calibers, and the closest I could find for the 7009a barrel was the miyota 8200 set, which is honestly probably too small. There's another set where the winding barrel sat exactly on the mainspring barrel, not inside it, that might have worked, but it seemed like a recipe for disaster.

That said, I managed to obliterate one mainspring through my own inexperience and testing/practising. But the next mainspring I happily got wound up and back into the barrel.

Good enough for a hobbyist I'd say.

IMG_20221211_153954.jpg

Edited by lexacat
  • Like 2
  • Thanks 1
  • 1 month later...
Posted

Hi all, newbie here.

Could someone who has a set of "value" mainspring winders make a list of diameters and winding directions. Looking at the supplied handles, they all look like RH wind but some of the movements listed would require LH winders.

I work mainly on old Swiss movements as a hobby. I need to decide whether to buy a starter set or 2 or 3 individual Bergeon sizes  in RH and add as I go along. 

Thanks all.

Posted

I went with the individual Bergeon components.  1 handle (works for both LH & RH), 1 winder per size (works for both LH & RH), and individual LH and RH arbors for sizes as needed.

The arbors are really the only thing that is truly LH and RH.  The winders and handles can work for either direction.  I've found that 95% of the watches I've worked on thus far (not too many but a good amount for a hobbyist) have all worked with either a 5, 6, or 7 size.  There are a few oddballs along the way where it required a certain size winder, but the arbor was either too big or too small, so I wound those by hand.  For the most part, I find getting individual components to be a much more affordable way of getting good winders without spending the outrageous amount of money it would require for a full set, of which I'm guessing several would never get used by a hobbyist.

Posted
1 hour ago, Chrismin said:

Hi all, newbie here.

Could someone who has a set of "value" mainspring winders make a list of diameters and winding directions. Looking at the supplied handles, they all look like RH wind but some of the movements listed would require LH winders.

I work mainly on old Swiss movements as a hobby. I need to decide whether to buy a starter set or 2 or 3 individual Bergeon sizes  in RH and add as I go along. 

Thanks all.

See the section in grey

https://bhi.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/HJ-Mainspring-Winders.pdf

  • Like 1
  • 2 weeks later...
Posted
On 12/11/2022 at 9:42 AM, lexacat said:

Welp, I got the cheap set in the mail this week, and I also got 4 spare seiko 7009a movements for parts, so a good time to break some more mainsprings.

They aren't bi-directional although I initially thought they were.

As said above, they're definitely made for specific calibers, and the closest I could find for the 7009a barrel was the miyota 8200 set, which is honestly probably too small. There's another set where the winding barrel sat exactly on the mainspring barrel, not inside it, that might have worked, but it seemed like a recipe for disaster.

That said, I managed to obliterate one mainspring through my own inexperience and testing/practising. But the next mainspring I happily got wound up and back into the barrel.

Good enough for a hobbyist I'd say.

IMG_20221211_153954.jpg

Coming back to this again.

Can you tell me if the arbor shafts are interchangeable with the barrel part.        Or, are the bores matched to the shaft diameter for each caliber. I am looking at the diameters of the barrels and, if the shafts were interchangeable, it would give a good selection of barrel/arbor combinations.

Posted
3 hours ago, Chrismin said:

Coming back to this again.

Can you tell me if the arbor shafts are interchangeable with the barrel part.        Or, are the bores matched to the shaft diameter for each caliber. I am looking at the diameters of the barrels and, if the shafts were interchangeable, it would give a good selection of barrel/arbor combinations.

The bore diameter is matched to the shaft. 
Overall quality is decent for the price. 
Will still buy Bergeon winders as the need arise (have #1, #6, #7 so far) but this is a nice variety to have. 
I originally bought this cheap set for the smaller arbors, to use with the #1 Bergeon drum. Usable but didn’t solve my problem with winding the 1104A mainsprings. 

Posted

As John says, the cheap set definitely matches bores to shafts. 

I've got a lathe in the shed, been contemplating making some left/right alternative winders for some of these. Mostly just to see if I can...

  • Like 1
  • 2 weeks later...
Posted
On 2/1/2023 at 4:06 AM, JohnFrum said:

The bore diameter is matched to the shaft. 
Overall quality is decent for the price. 
Will still buy Bergeon winders as the need arise (have #1, #6, #7 so far) but this is a nice variety to have. 
I originally bought this cheap set for the smaller arbors, to use with the #1 Bergeon drum. Usable but didn’t solve my problem with winding the 1104A mainsprings. 

What is your go to source for buying the individual Bergeon tools.  I found the main Winder Handle as they refer to it, but can't seem to locate the individual winders

Posted (edited)
39 minutes ago, Jonno65 said:

What is your go to source for buying the individual Bergeon tools.  I found the main Winder Handle as they refer to it, but can't seem to locate the individual winders

Cousins have them. 

https://www.cousinsuk.com/category/mainspring-winders

https://www.cousinsuk.com/product/watch-bergeon-arbors-for-winders-by-size

Edited by SpringMangler
Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Jonno65 said:

What is your go to source for buying the individual Bergeon tools.  I found the main Winder Handle as they refer to it, but can't seem to locate the individual winders

Both Cousins(UK) and Otto Frei (USA) have individual arbors and arbor+drums 

https://www.ofrei.com/page1145.html

 

Edited by JohnFrum
  • Like 1
  • 3 weeks later...
Posted (edited)
On 12/4/2022 at 6:19 PM, aac58 said:

I recently watched this video about that same winder set. It's really affordable and looks quite good, if only I had the information about the diameter and wind direction of those units...

 

 

.

Sizes mm

Left to right top

2000 = 7.2    2671 = 7.1    2235 = 7.8    8200 = 9.8   8500 = 9.0     

Left to right bottom

8500 = 9.3    3135 = 10    CO711 = 10.8   7750 = 12.0    2892 =  10.7

All Right Handed. Left as well if you use brass washers filed out to the same size. insert, then reverse

I purchased some brass washers and have spent some time filing out the innards to fit the outer size of each of the Chinese winders. I now have the facility to place 10 different size springs left or right. It would have been too long to wait whilst I purchased springs of each size. Total cost £6.69p.

Edited by rossjackson01
  • Like 5
  • 5 weeks later...
Posted (edited)
On 4/1/2023 at 3:00 PM, kd8tzc said:

So when you look at the chart, what do they mean when they say Grey Set vs Red set? 

The red set has 14 winders

F4644D94-9D8C-4522-866B-BEF6931A160E.thumb.jpeg.f64fd7cf3c4d8b54d3205fe4f2532640.jpeg

637A0203-66F0-49C3-8110-65393BE9BE11.thumb.jpeg.46f9f5725bafb1dd46b5d68f6739164e.jpeg

Edited by Kalanag
  • 3 weeks later...
Posted

I see mention of the Bergeon #5, 6 and 7 being common mainspring winder sizes.  Does this budget 10 piece set cover those sizes?

 

On 3/2/2023 at 4:57 AM, rossjackson01 said:

All Right Handed. Left as well if you use brass washers filed out to the same size. insert, then reverse

I purchased some brass washers and have spent some time filing out the innards to fit the outer size of each of the Chinese winders. I now have the facility to place 10 different size springs left or right. It would have been too long to wait whilst I purchased springs of each size. Total cost £6.69p.

I don't follow you on the brass washers.  Do you have a photo?

Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, gpraceman said:

I see mention of the Bergeon #5, 6 and 7 being common mainspring winder sizes.  Does this budget 10 piece set cover those sizes?

 

I don't follow you on the brass washers.  Do you have a photo?

Here you go.

On the box above the holders are the washers I purchased. I filed them out to fit each individual wider and have inserted them on the winder.

IMG_20230303_095702.jpg

Edited by rossjackson01
more information
Posted
39 minutes ago, rossjackson01 said:

Here you go.

On the box above the holders are the washers I purchased. I filed them out to fit each individual wider and have inserted them on the winder.

IMG_20230303_095702.jpg

I like the cheat sheet.

You've still got me puzzled on the washers.  How do those let you do left handed?

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • Recently Browsing

    • No registered users viewing this page.
  • Topics

  • Posts

    • After another long hiatus (while waiting for truing calipers to arrive), I’ve made some more progress. TRUING IN THE FLAT I was able to use the calipers I purchased to true the wheel in the flat. There’s still a very slight eccentricity in the round, but I’m going to leave it as is. It doesn’t wobble any more and I’m happy with that. Thanks for the tool recommendation @mbwatch. It worked well, though I must say it takes a delicate touch to get the balance between the calipers. Also, my calipers effectively have four different variations based on the orientation of the arms (2 sides, 2 orientations each). Some are more tapered than others, though to what end, I can’t quite tell. My first thought was that flipping them over yields arms that can be used for poising. They are K&D horizontal calipers, btw. OSCILLATION TEST @nevenbekriev @JohnR725 After truing the wheel in the flat, I carefully remounted the hairspring and did your oscillation test. Balance wheel mounted to balance cock, no pallet fork, rotate balance wheel 180 degrees, let it go, and time+count the oscillations. Results as follows for dial down orientation: Duration: 1m 15sec (to full stop) # of oscillations: About 125, though the amplitude of the oscillations decreased significantly, as one might expect I should redo the test in at least two other orientations…Forgot to do that. 🙂  In general, it’s safe to say this watch has a pretty low amplitude, likely for a variety of reasons. I haven’t oiled the balance jewels FWIW…I should probably do that, but I really don’t want to keep disassembling and reassembling the balance. Is it possible to oil those jewels (top and bottom) by just removing the capstones and putting in a tiny amount of oil, with balance in place? I can see how having the pivot in the jewel hole could change how capillary action works, and thus might pull more oil in than desired. However, those capillary forces will be in effect anyway once the balance is inserted. PRACTICE MOVEMENTS @JohnR725 I agree with your sentiment about using practice movements wholeheartedly, and I’ve done that to some degree. The watch I’m currently repairing is for a friend, and she was willing to have me treat it as a “learn-by-doing experience.” With that said,, I probably should have purchased a few more “beaters” before getting to something where I don’t want to muck things up. I’ve still got a couple of those on the bench that I used as donors, and I’ll try to rehabilitate them.
    • Hi, this is the first place I found when looking for advice so I hope someone could advise me.  Im completely new to touching watches but I’ve always wondered how they work.  I’ve bought a cheap movement, an ETA replica to take apart and rebuild.  Im thinking I’ll need some screwdrivers, tweezers, movement holder and a loop? My goal is just to have a go first and see if I enjoy it enough before buying more tools.  Do I buy cheap tools for now and get better quality tools later if I enjoy it like I think I will? or will the cheap tools be a pain and take some of the fun out of it?  With quality tools being relatively expensive I’m unsure what to buy.    Any advice would be greatly appreciated!
    • Yeah I have seen 44-56 documented for Elgin 18 size elsewhere. I have the style of gauge that's like a set of feeler gauges and I never noticed before today it is faintly stamped "Elgin". Pictured is the way I have been measuring. I am going to go to a larger jewel than the 42 that had been in there. I recently won an auction on a big set of Fitrite jewels all in the little bottles, to discover that the what's actually in the bottles bears no relation to the chart of sizes printed on the box. In most cases it seems to be all mixed so in fact I have about 24 little bottles and thousands of assorted jewels of all diameters and lengths, which is better than nothing. But since I don't have a micrometer with a table, measuring for the exact diameter will be a big job. Instead I will test a lot of them in the fork slot the same way I measure with the gauge. But this is still the next thing. I have to get the escapement to unlock first.
    • it would be nice to have the exact model of the watch the or a picture so we can see exactly what you're talking about. this is because the definition of Swiss watch could be a variety of things and it be helpful if we could see exactly the watch your dealing with then in professional watch repair at least some professionals they do pre-cleaned watches. In other words the hands and dial come off and the entire movement assembled goes through a cleaning machine sometimes I think a shorter bath perhaps so everything is nice and clean for disassembly makes it easier to look for problems. Then other professionals don't like pre-cleaning because it basically obliterates the scene of the crime. Especially when dealing with vintage watches where you're looking for metal filings and problems that may visually go away with cleaning. Then usually super sticky lubrication isn't really a problem for disassembly and typically shouldn't be a problem on a pallet fork bridge because there shouldn't be any lubrication on the bridge at all as you typically do not oil the pallet fork pivots.  
    • A few things you should find out before you can mske a decision of what to do. As Richard said, what is the crown and all of the crown components made of . Then also the stem .  The crown looks to have a steel washer that retains a gasket. So be careful with what chemicals you use to dissolve any stem adhesives or the use of heat. You might swell or melt the gasket unless you are prepared to change that also . The steel washer maybe reactive to alum. Something I've just used to dissolve a broken screw from a plate. First drilled out the centre of the screw with a 0.5mm carbide . Dipped only the section that held the broken screw in Rustins rust remover. This is 40 % phosphoric acid. 3 days and the screw remains were completely dissolved, no trace of steel in the brass threads. A black puddle left in the solution.
×
×
  • Create New...