Cleaning, assembly results in sluggish balance wheel

[rph952]

My first attempt at servicing a watch, Bulova 11 BLC movement, resulted in a broken mainspring, lost pallet bridge screw, many "thought I lost a part" scares, and a movement that now only runs upside down for a minute or so (it runs great if I tension the crown/winder). Not bad for a start. I bought a new mainspring that was a perfect match and it seems fine. From reading similar postings, finding the root cause is beyond my skills. I suppose I could reassemble the movement, but mostly just for the practice. I don't think the result will be any different.

The pivots all look straight and the balance and hairspring look good, but what do I know? The escape wheel spins freely. The pallet fork clicks back and forth just fine. Everything looks great for that matter, except the result. My guess is it's a problem with the pallet fork pivot or the balance. Since this was a used watch, I don't know its history.

I'm using this look-alike as a practice watch for my 1970 Bulova 11 BLC with the same movement, a graduation gift.

Any suggestions? I can send pics if it would help.

[rph952]

Here's some pics. It might be that my cleaning solution is the cause -- torch fuel (tiki). Lighter fluid sounds like a better solution.

[Neverenoughwatches]

1 hour ago, rph952 said:

Here's some pics. It might be that my cleaning solution is the cause -- torch fuel (tiki). Lighter fluid sounds like a better solution.

Hi. Naptha is a fair option for a beginner and yes the parts need to be spotlessly clean to run smoothly. Break down  watch assembly checks into stages. A running issue can be a myriad of causes in a fully assembled watch not so easy to identify without a timegrapher. Work on each stage individually checking components as you go. Start with the main engine, without sufficient power the watch wont run or will run poorly. So barrel and mainspring components to be thoroughly inspected for wear and compatibility as parts may have been changed previously and be incorrect. When all is good there move onto the train assembly checking all pivots and jewels along the way. Next the escapement, make sure power is being delivered through the train upto the escapement. Check for free running of all the train wheels by applying some wind to the barrel, you should have a nice smooth run of them with no wobbly wheels . The train should come to a long slow steady finish with no abrupt stopping or halting, with a few seconds of backspin on the escape wheel.  Next the pallet fork to go in, check for the snap back and forth and locking and unlocking on the escape wheel teeth. Finally fit the balance, i prefer to fit the balance before everything else and check that is working ok with no visual hindrance from other components. Easier as well to set up the intial beat error if there is no adjustment arm. Then remove it and reinstall it after the escapement. This way pivots can be checked and any hairspring adjustments can be made a lot easier. So finally refit the balance assembly and hopefully you've ironed out most issues to allow a good intial heartbeat after a good wind up. Watch the hairspring breathe and inspect it from all angles to see how it interacts with everything around it. Look at its centering and for nice concentric coils with no coning of them. This is usually were most faults will lay, with it being such an integral and delicate piece.  So thorough staged inspections. I'm sure you will have plenty of questions along the way but there are many good friendly knowledgeable folk here to help you.

[JohnR725]

8 hours ago, rph952 said:

Since this was a used watch, I don't know its history.

as this is a used watch what was its condition just before you service to? In other words was a running it wasn't running it had unknown issues what was its condition?

8 hours ago, rph952 said:

My first attempt at servicing a watch,

can I interpret the servicing means that this is the first watch you've ever taken apart?

 

8 hours ago, rph952 said:

a movement that now only runs upside down for a minute or so

when you serviced and clean the watch did you entirely disassembled the watch? Did you remove the balance jewels?

[Nucejoe]

 The lower balance pivot doesn't look as great as you say, looks short might even be broken so it can jump in and out of the jewel hole when running, in which case the balance runs slugish but better in face down position or when you add power through the crown.

Check the pivot under high magnification, I will make an appointment with my optomologist if it isn't broken. 

Good luck

 

[rph952]

I took the balance from the other movement and tried it after cleaning and oiling. It was marginally better. I got it to work for about 10 seconds in an upright position as opposed to upside down. I'm going to disassemble and clean the entire movement again. This is good practice for me. I removed and oiled the balance jewels. Those little jewel springs don't look like they are meant for a lot of prying.

[rph952]

I'm inspecting parts. This is, I think, the third wheel and pinion #214, no. 3 for Bulova 11 BLC. Should it have a narrower projection at the tip? I may need to disassemble my known good movement to find out for sure. It doesn't look like it should have a pointy end from looking at the Bulova spec sheet. Thanks.

[JohnR725]

19 hours ago, rph952 said:

I removed and oiled the balance jewels. Those little jewel springs don't look like they are meant for a lot of prying.

Pictures would be nice for us to see exactly what you're talking about

plus a picture of the balance wheel in the watch. Everybody likes to take pictures the balance wheel out of the watch but the problem isn't with the balance wheel out of the watch the problem is probably when it's in the watch and we can't see things when it's out of the watch

All so when you get the picture the balance wheel  in the watch to make sure there's no power on it it's hard to see things with the balance wheels moving it's very misleading

 

[rph952]

Well, I cleaned and reassembled the movement and the result, no surprise, was the same. The balance won't spin, unless I tension the mainspring. It works better upside down, for good reason. The balance wheel is resting on the pallet fork bridge (see photo). So, something is probably wrong with the balance wheel assembly. The watch title included "4 repair." So it probably had issues, but only said pre-owned. The seller was probably not a watch person. That's not important. For the price I got a great donor and had a chance to practice before launching into my own Bulova Oceanographer vintage 1970, which I know to be in good shape, except for never being serviced. It has been a valuable learning experience and I'm looking forward to the overhaul in the coming days.

[JohnR725]

On 5/23/2022 at 7:58 PM, rph952 said:

My first attempt at servicing a watch

The first step of servicing is what?

On 5/23/2022 at 7:58 PM, rph952 said:

but what do I know?

Actually the first step is diagnosing what the problem is and having no idea what you're doing that is definitely going to be a problem. It's why it's always better to start with running watches to practice on because and if it's not running after you practice cleaning and taking it apart reassembling it lots of times you know it's probably your fault something you did as opposed to starting with a non-running watch and having no idea what it will take to make it run.

1 hour ago, rph952 said:

something is probably wrong with the balance wheel assembly.

Not necessarily the balance wheel assembly what about the jewels that it rides in? Did you take those out did you clean them?

1 hour ago, rph952 said:

For the price I got a great donor and had a chance to practice before launching into my own Bulova Oceanographer vintage 1970, which I know to be in good shape, except for never being serviced. It has been a valuable learning experience and I'm looking forward to the overhaul in the coming days.

Just so I interpret correctly what you're telling us is you giving up on the bad watch and now you're going to practice on your vintage oceanographic correct?

 

[rph952]

Yes. I didn't have any serious difficulties with the process, so I'm optimistic.

[Nucejoe]

2 hours ago, rph952 said:

The balance won't spin, unless I tension the mainspring. It works better upside down, for good reason. The balance wheel is resting on the pallet fork bridge (see photo). So, something is probably wrong with the balance wheel assembly. 

Its either short/damaged balance pivot on mainplate side or moved/ broken jewel ( setting on mainplate).