Antique Key Wind Arbor Loose

[ken]

This is not the first time I've seen this. What is the best way to secure this part back in its rightful place, or is there an easy way? It's a Waltham, but my Matile has same problem

[Geo]

Having just completed work on my 1913 trench watch, I now know how the cannon pinion system works on these old watches.

The pin you are having problems with should be a friction fit inside the centre wheel in the same way that a modern cannon pinion is a friction fit over the centre wheel shaft of a modern watch. If need be, this fit can be increased by gently peening the part of pin where it locates inside the centre wheel. This could be done until the required degree of resistance is attained for setting the hands.

The cannon pinion in the trench watch has a slight taper inside, and the pin has a matching taper on the part that is exposed above the main plate. The cannon pinion when fitted correctly is a tight fit on the shaft, just like a morse taper, and does not rotate on the shaft. The hour wheel is fitted over the cannon pinion and is driven by the cannon pinion via the minute wheel. The minute hand is fitted onto the end of this pin and holds everything from moving axially. There is no dial washer!

The hour hand is fitted in the normal way before the minute hand, but I recommend using a staking set to fit the minute hand accurately. Select a position on the die plate between holes, or use a flat faced stump to support the lower square end of the pin. A flat hole punch should be selected for carefully tapping on the minute hand. This should be done very gently using a watchmakers hammer until it is fully seated. The end of the pin should just be showing through the centre of the minute wheel when correctly seated. Check to make sure that the hands are setting correctly and all feels good before casing the watch.

[ken]

Ok I'll need to really go slow on this one, when u say penn the pin at the point the center wheel hits is that like flattening it on an anvil, so do I not have the min hand on with more force? It did not fall off when I removed this shank! (The minuet hand)

Edited May 14, 2015 by ken

[clockboy]

Having just completed work on my 1913 trench watch, I now know how the cannon pinion system works on these old watches.

The pin you are having problems with should be a friction fit inside the centre wheel in the same way that a modern cannon pinion is a friction fit over the centre wheel shaft of a modern watch. If need be, this fit can be increased by gently peening the part of pin where it locates inside the centre wheel. This could be done until the required degree of resistance is attained for setting the hands.

The cannon pinion in the trench watch has a slight taper inside, and the pin has a matching taper on the part that is exposed above the main plate. The cannon pinion when fitted correctly is a tight fit on the shaft, just like a morse taper, and does not rotate on the shaft. The hour wheel is fitted over the cannon pinion and is driven by the cannon pinion via the minute wheel. The minute hand is fitted onto the end of this pin and holds everything from moving axially. There is no dial washer!

The hour hand is fitted in the normal way before the minute hand, but I recommend using a staking set to fit the minute hand accurately. Select a position on the die plate between holes, or use a flat faced stump to support the lower end of pin No.1. A flat hole punch should be selected for carefully tapping on the minute hand. This should be done very gently using a watchmakers hammer until it is fully seated. The end of the pin should just be showing through the centre of the minute wheel when correctly seated. Check to make sure that the hands are setting correctly and all feels good before casing the watch.

That is really interesting Geo I have not come across this set up. A few pics when you get time would be nice

[Geo]

1) Ok I'll need to really go slow on this one, when u say penn the pin at the point the center wheel hits is that like flattening it on an anvil?

2) so do I not have the min hand on with more force?

3) It did not fall off when I removed this shank! (The minuet hand)

1) Gently tap the centre part of the pin (the part that will be inside the centre pinion tube) you will effectively put a dent or small flat on the pin that will allow it to grip the inside of the tube. This gives the same effect as nipping up a cannon pinion in a normal wristwatch to give the correct amount of friction for hand setting. This can also be achieved by putting a slight bend in the centre of the pin.

2) The minute hand is not fitted to the cannon pinion, it is fitted onto the end of the pin that has the square on the end. By gently, and I mean very gently, tapping the hand onto the pin, it indirectly pushes the cannon pinion onto the slight taper and makes sure that the cannon pinion WILL NOT SLIP on the pin. If the cannon pinion slips on the pin the hands will go out of register when you try to set the time.

3) I'm sure the hand would not have fallen off when you removed it. None of the above has anything to do with increasing the Tightness of the hand onto the pin.

[Geo]

That is really interesting Geo I have not come across this set up. A few pics when you get time would be nice

I can do this the next time I work on one, but that won't be in the near future.

[clockboy]

OK keep cool