Pocket watch--overcoil HS replacement and bent regulator pins--oh my

[LittleWatchShop]

I noticed this when I removed the hairspring from the bridge.  The regulator pins were pinched together.  Now I know why.

Because the overcoil tends to lie on the main coil, it kills the amplitude.  By lifting the spring at the regulator pins and essentially clamping them, the spring lifts high enough for the rest of the HS to do its thing.

Somebody replaced the HS with an overcoil and had to bend the pins in to accommodate it.  That is my theory.

Now I have to figure out the plan of action.

Open to any ideas.

[LittleWatchShop]

Hmm...maybe it is supposed to be an overcoil.  Here is a listing for NYSWC hairsprings.  They look like overcoils.

[JohnR725]

1 hour ago, LittleWatchShop said:

Hmm...maybe it is supposed to be an overcoil.

Look where your pins are even if they went straight down which they probably never did but even if they did you wouldn't hit the outer part of the hairspring. Then if it's a pocket watch especially early American as long as it not too early it probably is in over coil.

1 hour ago, LittleWatchShop said:

Here is a listing for NYSWC hairsprings

Then always helpful if you tell us which watch your looking at then we can go look at other pictures and see what we can find like you can go to the pocket watch database and see if they have any watches it look like yours but we can't do that without a name

So for instance there is a name there's a link there is pictures and drawings they all look like over coil's. Now the fun begins of looking at yours and figuring out why you of a problem and fixing it. I think one of my least favorite things to do is straightening out a bit over coil as it can eat up a lot of time and a lot of thought of what exactly are supposed to bending to get everything back where it's supposed to be.  This is where it's really helpful if you have an example of what you're trying to match.

https://pocketwatchdatabase.com/guide/companies/new-york-standard-watch-co

 

[LittleWatchShop]

29 minutes ago, JohnR725 said:

Look where your pins are even if they went straight down which they probably never did but even if they did you wouldn't hit the outer part of the hairspring. Then if it's a pocket watch especially early American as long as it not too early it probably is in over coil.

Since my post, what I have done is to gently move the pins out.  They are not straight down but farther toward the periphery.  Then I insured that the HS was between the pins.  As the balance oscillates, the hairspring hits both pins in a full cycle.

On the timing machine, this seems to have alleviated the massive error.  With adjustments, I have set the watch aside to see how it keeps time.

That is a great database BTW.  I had it bookmarked but did not go looking there.  Here is the link to my serial number.

I am happy with my progress.  Stayed up past midnight last night because I could not let it go.  At the end of the day, it is a cheap watch.  They go for nothing on ebay.  This one is not jeweled.

[LittleWatchShop]

One kinda cool thing about this project...this is the first pocket watch where the stem and crown remain intact when the movement is removed.  It is only my second real pocket watch to service!

So, I knew I needed some bench keys.  Well, Dad worked on lots of pocket watches...so where are his bench keys?????

I went digging around the watch bench and there they were!!  It is a small thing, for sure, but pretty cool--thanks Dad!!

[JohnR725]

21 hours ago, LittleWatchShop said:

As the balance oscillates, the hairspring hits both pins in a full cycle.

In addition to over coils having that nifty part on top there's another difference between them and flat hairsprings. Flat hairsprings the regulator pins should be a little ways up our art over coil regulator pins need to be as close as possible but still allow the hairspring the slide when you move the regulator. See shouldn't be bouncing between the pins with spacing because otherwise you're going to have timing issues based on amplitude.

A lot of times you'll see that problem when you go from a dial-up and dial down on the timing machine to one of the pendant positions amplitude drops in the watch would get slow. So if you type the regulator pins back up that problem tends to go away or at least be minimized.

21 hours ago, LittleWatchShop said:

So, I knew I needed some bench keys.  Well, Dad worked on lots of pocket watches...so where are his bench keys?????

I went digging around the watch bench and there they were!!  It is a small thing, for sure, but pretty cool--thanks Dad!!

Nice when you might actually have all the tools you need. This comes up all the time when you have to explain the somebody they deed bench keys and they can't figure out why they're not still being made and why they're really expensive on eBay. When at one time they didn't really cost very much at all and they were readily available.

[LittleWatchShop]

1 hour ago, JohnR725 said:

In addition to over coils having that nifty part on top there's another difference between them and flat hairsprings. Flat hairsprings the regulator pins should be a little ways up our art over coil regulator pins need to be as close as possible but still allow the hairspring the slide when you move the regulator. See shouldn't be bouncing between the pins with spacing because otherwise you're going to have timing issues based on amplitude.

A lot of times you'll see that problem when you go from a dial-up and dial down on the timing machine to one of the pendant positions amplitude drops in the watch would get slow. So if you type the regulator pins back up that problem tends to go away or at least be minimized.

Nice when you might actually have all the tools you need. This comes up all the time when you have to explain the somebody they deed bench keys and they can't figure out why they're not still being made and why they're really expensive on eBay. When at one time they didn't really cost very much at all and they were readily available.

Somewhere in the cobwebs of my mind, I learned that as the balance oscillates, the hairspring should bank back and forth between the regulator pins.  I have no other source for this information than my Dad.  I have not seen it written down in the books I have (though I have not read every word).  Perhaps that is wrong.

The watch is running very well on the bench--dial up.  Sadly I busted the crystal when re casing it.  Damn thing is so thin.  Well, I found one on ebay, so the issue will be resolved.  It was a dumb mistake and I know why it happened, so it is a learning experience...LOL...I have so many learning experiences!!

[JohnR725]

If you looking for a glass crystal here's another source

http://www.whitescrystals.com/

 

 

 

 

 

 

[LittleWatchShop]

15 minutes ago, JohnR725 said:

If you looking for a glass crystal here's another source

http://www.whitescrystals.com/

Wow...it is great that these craftsmen are still doing this...amazing.