Illinois 16s gear removal; question...

[tmac1956]

Hello Everyone:

I have an Illinois Grade 175 16s pocket watch which has a mechanism that I've never seen before. The short of it is that I don't know how to remove one of the gears on the dial side. I have attached a photo with the component highlighted in yellow..

Thanks!
tmac

[JohnR725]

What's on the other side of the plate?

[tmac1956]

Hello:

The only thing on the other side of the plate is the ratchet wheel and the click half moon wheel. Neither of which are directly adjacent to this thing.

Thanks,

tmac1956

[jdm]

On 1/14/2022 at 4:58 PM, tmac1956 said:

The short of it is that I don't know how to remove one of the gears on the dial side.

Is it necessary to remove it? It can be cleaned in place and being a slow moving wheel I wouldn't worry about oiling, there are ways to do it anyway. 

That being said looks to me the manufacturer did all possible to do without a top platina in there, as the other wheel is hold by a side strap. I don't know the reason why the split hollow round that holds the setting wheel has that shape, but it could be that is just light pressed in the main plate and you can use a pin vice to grab and pull it out. It could also be screwed in, but going by logic I don't think it is, because they could have used a regular screw head, and since the wheel can be turned either direction, a screw in direct contact with it isn't the best idea. 

Probably generations of repairers wondered about the same... 

[JohnR725]

On 1/23/2022 at 11:56 AM, tmac1956 said:

The only thing on the other side of the plate is the ratchet wheel and the click half moon wheel. Neither of which are directly adjacent to this thing.

That's not entirely the correct answer in the picture would've been really helpful? Fortunately I had a few minutes of work and looked in my drawer of miscellaneous parts movements and I found the movement. It's definitely a strange set up I know I've worked on one of these before and a picture of the backside of the main plate really would've been helpful. But I will give you pictures now and explain how it all comes apart you get stuck putting it all back together again.

For those that aren't paying attention when the setting lever pulls out the mystery wheel goes up and down it shifts the watch out of winding into setting. As noted for the problem it cannot be disassembled from this side you have to do something on the other side.

I suppose I should attach the pictures one at a time and carefully explain what they mean but instead they're numbered one through eight and they're probably not in the order in which I took apart.

Picture number one you can see the wheel it's up it's currently in the setting position and you can see the levers out. Note if you're cleaning the watch I would take the plate off holding a minute wheel in their plus I would a disassemble the watch in an entirely different order I just left the balance wheel on the train in just saiga taken apart to show you this so you receive stuff that really shouldn't be there like the minute wheel should've come off and the other intermediate wheel should a bit off.

Pictured to the other side you can see the peculiar lever is is moved by the setting lever when you point out this moves back and forth this is the part that has to come out to get your part out.

Picture three the parts bin moved its in setting and then you discover that you should taken the lever off in the first place because it keeps his thing in place. Picture four shows the lever with how it engages this part

you remove the setting lever then you can slide the part out of the way and there it is in picture five.

Pictures six shows it out

picture seven which you do is just push on the protruding part and I circled in pictures seven there is the part that has to come out.

Now once the pardon picture seven is out the wheel will not fall off? At least mine didn't I had the really gently pry you want to be really careful not to break the teeth off I found prying in the center was the best and then it just popped off. You'll notice underneath there's a spring note the direction the spring is in their C put it back the same way when it's all nice and clean.

I did not look up the serial number to make sure my watch agrees with yours but I suspect this is what you're going to find this is why asked you what was on the other side of the plate because there's something holding your PCN and it's probably on the other side like this is

[jdm]

47 minutes ago, JohnR725 said:

You'll notice underneath there's a spring note the direction the spring is in their C put it back the same way when it's all nice and clean.

Great explaination. 

May I add a note about placing parts that can go either way, when we don't know for sure. Do some thinking and use logic, in this case it's flat spring, its legs need to grab on the plate so it doesn't turn, and the tapered center presses on wheel with a small surface and friction, so the wheel can turn.