LEpine La Paris Pocket Watch - Anyone know about these?

[taymo]

Hello,

A family member pulled out this pocket watch over the weekend. I was looking for any background on the watch or point me to someone who knows LEpine watches well. Can you tell if this is a real LEpine? As you'll see, the watch requires a key to wind, as opposed to using the crown. So I believe this is an earlier pocket watch. The crown has a serial number of 116 or 911 - depending on the orientation. I'm assuming it would be 116. I can provide more photos if needed.

The balance appears to be on the outside, which makes me believe it may be an earlier dated watch. It also has a name scribed into the silver section - Avance...something. The steel pieces are black polished and the scratches shown in the photos are not as prevalent in real life. The hands and screws are also heat treated/blued. I can tell by hand because they are different hues of blue. It's very neat.

Anyways, please ask me any questions that you have on the watch. I'm very interested in knowing your thoughts. 

Thanks for your help.

[oldhippy]

A piece such as this should come with a Provenance. You need to ask them how and when they got where from and where is the paper work. Something tells me this is not right its just a feeling I have. The scroll work on the balance cock looks as if it has been made by two different workers it is not consistent all the way around. The dial that is damaged is just enough to make it look as if its old but doesn't show any other wear. Those brass pins are modern, I know pins get lost or fall out and get replaced these are recent.   

[nickelsilver]

Lepine was most well known for inventing what is essentially the modern watch caliber, doing away with double plates and pillars and very notably the fusee. This made a huge splash in watchmaking at the time, and he was quite famous.

 

This is a fusee watch, most likely verge escapement, and looks a little more modern than a verge fusee that would have predated Lepine's invention. It could be from his workshop, or could be a fake (faking watches has been going on for hundreds of years). I'd need to dig in to some books to have a better idea.

 

Even as a fake it is of some interest, just as fake artwork often has its own merits. They couldn't order case dial hands and movement from china for the cost of lunch back then- any watch was a valuable object!

 

The wikipedia on Lepine is surprisingly thorough

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean-Antoine_Lépine

[taymo]

5 hours ago, oldhippy said:

A piece such as this should come with a Provenance. You need to ask them how and when they got where from and where is the paper work. Something tells me this is not right its just a feeling I have. The scroll work on the balance cock looks as if it has been made by two different workers it is not consistent all the way around. The dial that is damaged is just enough to make it look as if its old but doesn't show any other wear. Those brass pins are modern, I know pins get lost or fall out and get replaced these are recent.   

Thanks for pointing these items out. 

As a follow up, there is no damage on the dial (At least the damage I think you are referring to). The "damage" in the photos is really just dirt on the glass cover. I've attached two more photos of the dial in case the reveal something as well.

It does come with a backstory and a handwritten letter from the 1800s. I was trying to look at it's features to determine if what we see could place it in that timeframe first.

Thanks again for your thoughts.

[taymo]

I input avance into google translate and it stands for advance in French. I believe a name is not inscribed here, but advance and retard for the timing of the watch.