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Movement ID: not-a-Baumgartner

spectre6000
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spectre6000 Distinguished Member

spectre6000

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I got this 404 Club denizen in a lot a while back sight unseen. I popped the back off, found this, searched Ranfft, decided it was a jeweled version of a Baumgartner 866, and moved on for the moment. Coming back to it and looking closer, I realize it's definitely not a Baumgartner 866. The photo below is the watch in question (top) and an actual Baumgartner 866 (bottom). Anyone have any ideas?

 IMG_2259.thumb.JPG.e1d8870fe8b68c7f92d4d6146a8b44bb.JPG

spectre6000 Distinguished Member

spectre6000

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That may not be the link you intended. Doesn't seem to have any information about the movement.

I just tore it down. Can confirm, American made. 17 jewels with a cap jewel for each of the usual wheels to make up for the lack of jewels in the Roskopf escapement. Has a high friction wheel on the mainspring barrel like the Baumgartner 866. There used to be a how to on servicing that setup, but it seems to have gone missing... 

Definitely an interesting movement. 

spectre6000 Distinguished Member

spectre6000

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Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't cap jewels intended to be flat side down? I don't recall one way or the other on the business side of the movement, but on the dial side the cap jewel plates were all installed with the domed side down. I noticed the escape wheel was possibly cocked at a bit of an angle, but stayed at that angle through 360° rotation... It did wobble some as it turned, but not with the rotation of the wheel. Kinda wondering if an upside down cap jewel or two might not have put it at an angle that it was able to walk around. Begs the obvious question about the size of the opening in the main jewel, but this was a total non-runner so my expectations are low.

Nucejoe Distinguished Member

Nucejoe

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1 hour ago, spectre6000 said:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't cap jewels intended to be flat side down? I don't recall one way or the other on the business side of the movement, but on the dial side the cap jewel plates were all installed with the domed side down. I noticed the escape wheel was possibly cocked at a bit of an angle, but stayed at that angle through 360° rotation... It did wobble some as it turned, but not with the rotation of the wheel. Kinda wondering if an upside down cap jewel or two might not have put it at an angle that it was able to walk around. Begs the obvious question about the size of the opening in the main jewel, but this was a total non-runner so my expectations are low.

in case wear has shortened pivot so its shoulder rubs on jewel setting/ housing  hole, one can instal end stones dome side facing the pivot to compensate for the wear, it also reduces endshake.

You will notice the pivot rubbing on jewel setting if you were to put the end stone back flat side facing the pivot.  

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spectre6000 Distinguished Member

spectre6000

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So if the escape wheel is visibly at an angle, it's probably about as worn as can be and won't likely run for anything. Especially not if it's able to shift around and wobble... This will be interesting... It was a non-runner, and may continue being a non-runner, but at least it won't likely be entirely my fault for a change!

spectre6000 Distinguished Member

spectre6000

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Well... That was interesting. Tore it down. Cleaned it up. Interesting movement.

First off, the ratchet wheel screw slot was cut at an angle and all the way through on one side. First time I've seen that.

The main plate is sort of two pieces, I think for a little intermediate gear, but probably mostly to save cost. In order to clean the balance attached to the main plate, you have to clean the main plate, the 3/4 plate, and the intermediate block separately, then put it all back together and run it through again with the balance installed.

That's where the first insurmountable issue arose. Water ingress was an issue in the past, and the very long screw that only threads into the very thin main plate was rusted tight and broke. It was so long though, that I didn't even realize it was broken until I went to put it partially back together to clean the balance. I could probably dissolve out the screw, but then I'd need to be able to make a new one or source a donor movement.

The pinion is at an angle to the plane of the escape wheel. Fixable, but I'd need to buy a truing tool or a donor movement.

This watch has zero significance other than being less than $5. I got it as a victim on the altar of learning. Looks like I wasn't the first. I tagged it with what's wrong with it, bagged it, and put it in the "art drawer". If I ever come across another of these movements, I'll have a donor movement.

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Nucejoe Distinguished Member

Nucejoe

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On 12/20/2020 at 3:29 AM, spectre6000 said:

So if the escape wheel is visibly at an angle, it's probably about as worn as can be and won't likely run for anything. Especially not if it's able to shift around and wobble... 

If there is no sideshake(5 degrees max) on escape arbour but escape ( unwarped)  wheel is at an angle, you can fix wheel-arbour on a staking tool.

In case of excessive sideshake on escape arbour, the hole on escape jewel is worn or the jewel is broken, Bent pivot on escape arbour is common.

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