Watchmaker Needed for 6497 Pinion Modification

[mzinski]

Hello, I'm looking for a watchmaker to help me with a project I'm not equipped to do myself. 

I would like an extra tall cannon pinion and hour wheel on an ETA 6497-1. I currently have the H3 cannon pinion and hour wheel, 3.15mm and 2.15mm respectively. But they're still about 1.3mm short of the height I need. I am looking for a cannon pinion of 4.45mm and a hour wheel of 3.45mm. 

I wonder if anyone can point of a place to buy parts close to these dimensions. Or can anyone help with modifying or converting the parts I have into a taller cannon pinion and hour wheel? 

Much appreciated! 

 

[mzinski]

PS. I should mention I'm located in Seattle, WA. My preference is to find someone local or within the United States for ease of shipping. 

That said, if I need to go worldwide for help - I'm willing to. 

[mzinski]

I'm going to bump this topic and reframe the question looking at it another way. 

If I cannot find an affordable pinion perhaps I can have the hand set modified with taller tubes. 

I reached out to Matt Henning but I'm not sure the cost is worth it. To have these two parts made will far exceed the total cost of the watch it's for. 

So, maybe I can have the hands modified for less? 

Any thoughts? 

[JohnR725]

15 minutes ago, mzinski said:

I reached out to Matt Henning but I'm not sure the cost is worth it. To have these two parts made will far exceed the total cost of the watch it's for.

 

On 10/5/2020 at 9:23 AM, mzinski said:

Or can anyone help with modifying or converting the parts I have into a taller cannon pinion and hour wheel? 

it may be possible to modify the parts but as you've noticed people like Matt think that they should get paid for whatever the heck they're doing what a silly concept that is.

let's look at the modification route versus manufacturing from scratch. Both components have gears. Cutting new gears would be a pain so let's keep the old gears.

one form of modification would be to cut off the tubing part. Make new tubing or cylinders. The hour wheel is considerably easier because it's typically made out a brass tube or cylinder part has straight sides they would be much easier to do. You would probably have to bore out the gear part so that your new tube would press in. Then perhaps a low temperature solder would be all that you would need.

then the canon pinion that's going to be harder. Typically it's made out of steel. The tubing park can be relatively thin it's not smooth I think it because of a pain to make a new one. Then attaching it to the gear is problematic because this is where the friction part for the hands setting is you're going to put a lot of torque on the gear versus the tubing part. Probably laser welding of the two would be the only thing that work maybe.

then as another form a modification. Perhaps just put extensions on both components. one of the ways to combine two separate tubings together would be if one of them is tapered on the outside the other is tapered on the inside and they literally friction fit together. Possibly Loctite but be extremely careful that the Loctite is all cleaned up and removed as it can be very bad if it gets on the center wheel components. Some experimentation would be required here but that might be another option.

the best way would probably be to look in the Chinese who clone the watch and see if they make a taller version and solve your problem.

 

 

[mzinski]

5 hours ago, JohnR725 said:

it may be possible to modify the parts but as you've noticed people like Matt think that they should get paid for whatever the heck they're doing what a silly concept that is.

Haha, touché. 
 

I don’t want to come across as disparaging anyone. I’ve been told Matt is the best around for custom made parts. I can only imagine the best might not be the most appropriate person for my project. It’d be like sending a Timex to a Patek Phillips watchmaker for a new battery. I’m looking for the Hamilton of parts fabrication - if that makes sense. 
 

But continuing your description of the effort involves I’m super curious about the time it takes to make a canon or pinion. 1 hour? 10 hours? 100 hours? Or better yet, does the fabrication of one pinion equate to the time it takes for a full watch service? 

[JohnR725]

30 minutes ago, mzinski said:

Haha, touché. 

I find a lot of times people fail to grasp that people associated with watch repair or watch repair are entitled to make money. For instance there is another discussion group somewhere in the universe where they believe the going rate to get a pocket watch serviced is between 50 and $100. At $50 minimum wage oh wait maybe they don't pay their watchmaker minimum wage. Then somebody like Matt who specialized he probably thinks he gets a little more than minimum wage so things will be pricey.

Maybe this will give you an idea of how much time it would take. Although time really isn't the issue its skill of using the tools that you have. then sometimes looking at links like this like some YouTube videos are misleading in that they can make it look so simple.

https://watchmaking.weebly.com/motion-work-ii.html

 

 

 

[mzinski]

2 hours ago, JohnR725 said:

Maybe this will give you an idea of how much time it would take. Although time really isn't the issue its skill of using the tools that you have. then sometimes looking at links like this like some YouTube videos are misleading in that they can make it look so simple.

https://watchmaking.weebly.com/motion-work-ii.html

Great site! Thanks for sharing. BTW I don't think it's necessarily easy, I haven't watched any YouTube videos, and now my only reference point is this site. 

8 hours ago, JohnR725 said:

one form of modification would be to cut off the tubing part. Make new tubing or cylinders. The hour wheel is considerably easier because it's typically made out a brass tube or cylinder part has straight sides they would be much easier to do. You would probably have to bore out the gear part so that your new tube would press in. Then perhaps a low temperature solder would be all that you would need.

This is very tempting to try. I don't have a lathe but if I could find someone to turn a tube for me I would very quickly attempt this. 

8 hours ago, JohnR725 said:

the best way would probably be to look in the Chinese who clone the watch and see if they make a taller version and solve your problem.

I forgot to mention I did send an email to SeaGull since they clone the movement. Haven't heard back but I understand there is a Chinese holiday presently. 

[VWatchie]

4 hours ago, JohnR725 said:

For instance there is another discussion group somewhere in the universe where they believe the going rate to get a pocket watch serviced is between 50 and $100.

OT! Sorry, but I just can't help myself.

I could probably do it for $25! It's a method developed by some specialized sellers of Russian watches on eBay, or so I assume. The movement, excluding the dial and hands if they have lume otherwise included, is dipped and agitated in a can of naphtha. It's then dried with a hair dryer. Finally some thin oil is injected here and there where needed using a fine syringe. The watch will be ticking and it will look as good as new!

Seriously, after four years in this beloved hobby of mine, I find it a bit of a miracle that anyone, even a professional and skilled watch repairer can properly service even a standard 17 jewel watch (like the Unitas 6497) and only charge $500 or less doing it. Sure, the right tools, experience and skill make a huge, huge difference, but I personally still lack the imagination to really understand how it's done. Just the cleaning process, pegging, polishing pivots, checking and adjusting shake, perhaps replacing a jewel, and so on, can easily take me a day or two of work. If I'd try to make a living servicing and repairing watches (without cutting any corners) I'd slowly starve to death. Although with a smile on my face.

Edited October 10, 2020 by VWatchie

[JohnR725]

12 hours ago, VWatchie said:

can of naphtha.

don't know where I read it but somewhere I've seen a suggestion that some of the eBay sellers perhaps don't dip the watch in the cleaning fluid but they apply it to the dirty movement to loosen up the gummy lubricants so the watch can run. Then the watch can be sold as a running watch versus of nonrunning watch. Usually with the wording of that no guarantee of timekeeping etc.