Original, Restored, Repainted Or Frankenwatch?

[WillFly]

Among the many pitfalls which lurk around the watch collector, waiting to pounce, are questions of authenticity. I'm not talking about Rolex knock-offs here - there are plenty of other watch sites and YouTube videos which can do this for you - but about watches which are not quite what they're purported to be.

 

Original oldies but goodies - watches which are vintage in years but look to be in great condition.

They do exist. I have some and, generally speaking, you have to pay for that. I look out for quality sellers who I've used before - I'm talking eBay here - and who can be relied on to offer a decent watch that's not been mucked about with too much. These sellers will usually be quite straightforward in stating if they've changed a strap or a crystal, for example, and they usually specialise in particular brands and periods.

 

Restoration

I'm quite happy with a watch that's been restored, and a good seller will be honest with you and say so. Here's my Elgin military pocket watch from 1943 - sold to the UK government when supplies were hard to get:

 

 

 

The watch was restored by a quality American collector and dealer and sold to a collector in Scotland - who sold it on to me, and I was able to trace it through the various sales. You can see that the face and hands have probably been repainted and relumed quite reasonably. The case back may been ground clean, the markings re-engraved, and the back re-chromed. If this isn't the case, the watch has been sat in a drawer since 1943! I also have more bashed-about military watches, but I've purposely left these in their original state. Restoration appears to be very popular in Eastern European countries - but see "Frankenwatch" below!

 

Repaints

There's nothing intrinsically wrong with a repaint if it's done well and clear, from the ad, that it's been done. Unfortunately, most are not well done and can often conceal a movement in pretty shoddy condition. A lot of repaints are done in India, so be wary about buying from there. I never do. But be aware that some eBay sellers in the UK have deals going with people in India, who repaint stock and ship them over for advertising over here. Repaints, more often than not, look slightly fuzzy - or often too beautiful to be true! Be particularly careful of Favre-Leuba wristwatches which, in their original heyday, sold well in Asia, and now get repainted in India! Look out for sellers "other items" on eBay - if you see the same watch types over and over again from one seller, they may well be repaints. If you see a watch you like, try and compare it with another of the same make - just to spot differences.

 

The Frankenwatch

Brrr! Old movements badly recased (case screws often missing). Repainted dials glued to shoddy movements. Pictures of the case from every angle - but none of the movement. Better the honest picture of a movement showing all the rust and wear. Can you really expect a 60-year old watch to be in immaculate condition and yet be going for a few pounds... Sometimes - yes. Often - no!

Edited February 2, 2014 by WillFly

[Mark]

A couple of years ago we saw an omega pocket watch which had been converted into a wrist watch - lugs soldered on and a leather strap fitted.

People do the strangest things!

[autowind]

Caveat emptor,  I would be very wary of buying a very expensive item from Ebay unless the seller had been recommended by someone trusted.  Luckily I'm far to mean to spend a lot of money on anything.

 

RogerC

[Marc]

The whole concept of the Frankenwatch is one of those philosophical conundrums (conundra?) to me, and there seems to be two distinct categories of them.

 

First of all there are the attempts to retain a degree of authenticity, where a bunch of components sourced from every corner has been assembled into a working watch that resembles as closely as possible what would have come out of the factory.

Where attempts are made to pass this off as "factory original" it is simply out and out fraud, but when it is quite clear that it is a "bitsa" the ethics become a bit cloudy. I read an article once about a chap who had assembled his own Omega Speedmaster moon watch chrono entirely from spare parts. All of the parts (dial, case, movement, bracelet, the lot) were NOS factory original Omega parts and correct for the particular model. It just wasn't assembled by Omega and had no serial numbers on the case, bridges, or main plate.

So just how much less of an Omega was it compared to "the real thing"? And if it is any less, then if you have "the real thing" serviced (stripped down to component level and then reassembled) by an independent watchmaker (ie. not Omega), does that then lose any of its authenticity?

To me, the only crime in this category of Frankenwatch is in trying to pass the thing off as factory built if it wasn't, or trying to pass off combinations of components, or components from different manufacturers, as factory original. So long as you know what it is, the watch is fine.

 

The second category isn't really Frankenwatch at all but is more "rescue" watch, where an un-cased movement and dial has been re-homed in a new case.

There are so many of these orphaned movements around these days as precious metal cases are salvaged (vandalised) for bullion, and these are increasingly turning up in modern stainless steel cases. Some of them are very well done too, and provided it is clear that they they are not original pieces, is there anything wrong with that? (other than the destroying the original in the first place).

 

Redials are a whole other can of worms. My take is that I would rather wear a watch with a good quality redial that I can read, than struggle with an original that has become so patinated as to make it indecipherable; and since I believe that the primary reason for having a watch is to be able to tell the time, the watch that can be read has more value than the one that has to be squinted at in good light. The argument that the redial is not as it was when the watch left the factory, but the original is unaltered, is nonsense. If the original has any sign of patina or discolouration then it has been altered by time itself and the environment that it has lived in.

 

As for welding strap lugs onto a pocket watch, well that's just odd ;-)

[WillFly]

Good thoughts there, Marc. I'm not averse to all sorts of alterations but, like you, I am averse to fraud - or what amounts to fraud - when something has been put together without telling the fact, or when reworking has been done to conceal faults.

 

I sometimes wish we could go back to an earlier time when you could go into a watch shop, choose your movement, then choose your case, and perhaps a chain and fob. With all these lovely old movements having been orphaned in the greed for silver and gold scrap, I'm sure a reasonably priced casemaker could make a living. I know a good casemaker in Hertfordshire - one who made a bow for my Elgin 571 pocket watch - but he's a very skilled and expensive craftsman. It would have to be a movement worthy of his skills!