New Movements For Practicing On, Very Cheap.

[Geo]

I saw these on Fleabay and thought some of you guys might be interested in them for practicing on.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NOS-swiss-watch-movements-Renfer-Lengnau-5-mvmts-per-bid-One-holder-/321624811541?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4ae2552815

[BlakeL]

Thanks for the heads up. Looks like something good for me to work on next. I've been having a hard time figuring out what to buy.

[BlakeL]

I offered $25 which is $5 per movement and it was instantly accepted. I guess I should have offered lower or waited on the bidding. Still a good deal I think.

[BlakeL]

That's what I get for bidding on my phone. I thought it was an auction so i've contacted the seller to adjust my bid since it's $9 each. Above is my stupid post for the day.

[DrRock]

I checked them out, but the postage to Australia is prohibitive. $US9 for the card of 5 movements, but $almost $US35 postage (that's about $Aus42). I know the total is still a cheap lot, but it's a bit hard to swallow the postage as being 4 times the price of the goods!

[Geo]

Sometimes you've just got to look at the overall picture Doc. It's good to know the movement your practicing on works properly before you start on it, :-)

[DrRock]

Ahh bugger it! I just ordered 2 cards of them - 10 movements. It hurt to pay for that postage though - I buy a fair bit of stuff from the USA, much bigger and heavier than these things, and the postage is usually a fraction of this. I suspect it's a swings/roundabouts thing on the price - attract buyers with the low price, but scalp a bit extra on the postage.

 

Never mind - I'll now have 10 movements I can stuff up! ;)

 

--
Pete, Brisbane
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[DrRock]

Why won't the forum software let me edit a post after either the first edit, or after a few minutes?

[Geo]

Hi Pete, there is a time limit. I'm not sure what it is as I've been caught out myself.

[BlakeL]

Just so you guys know, these movements are FE or Cupillard caliber 233-60 with LeJour branding.  I looked them up and individually even for parts they are selling for around $25 so I might relist a few at some point. Seems like only one movement has sold in the past though.  I tried winding the first one out of the case and it doesn't seem to be running.  Will be a cool project getting at least one working.  Defiantly smaller than the Chinese movement too.

 

http://www.ranfft.de/cgi-bin/bidfun-db.cgi?10&ranfft&&2uswk&Cupillard_233_60

[BlakeL]

I tried winding all ten and there was only movement on one of them and the balance wheel just didn't seem to be going fast enough. If they are indeed NOS, is there anything that locks them from the factory?

[Geo]

There's a good chance that oil has dried out and turned into a sticky or hard varnish. Unless they have suffered some kind of mechanical damage, a thorough clean and lube should get them going.

[bobm12]

I agree with Geo. Look at the bright side, after doing a full maintenance on those movements you'll know them like the back of your hand!

[BlakeL]

I wasn't planning on buying cleaning supplies yet. Should I just disassemble and hold off until then or would some mineral spirits or naphtha work well enough?

[Geo]

naphtha work well enough?

Naptha (lighter fuel) will do the job OK. There are lots of articles on cleaning, of you do a search you will be able to check them out and see what will be best for you.

[DrRock]

Talking of cleaning, I was considering one of these:

 

http://watchbitz.com.au/shop/index.php?_a=viewProd&productId=330

 

Plus a couple of baskets/trays.  That site is local to me, and provides an excellent service on tools etc. Given that (1) I'm a complete beginner, and (2) I'm not doing this commercially, I figured one of these budget cleaners may be all I need.

 

So the question - would something like this be useful for cleaning movements? Rather than one of those multiple-canister dipping machines like Mark uses in his videos?

 

--
Pete, Brisbane
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Edited January 4, 2015 by DrRock

[bobm12]

Hi Pete,

 

I use something similar but I warn you it will take time vs. the commercial machines. If you calculate that every cycle is 10 min and you can only have one cycle at a time, one watch might take over 1/2 hour and sometimes more than 1 hour if you consider some parts are individually cleaned: hairspring ensemble attached to already clean main plate sans jewels, etc.

 

Then, hand dry all parts except screws. Hand clean jewels and/or assemblies. Dry them by hand too.

 

It is important to keep chemicals in beakers and then immerse the parts (inside their baskets) there, not directly into the ultrasonic machine which is filled with water (i.e. parts inside baskets, baskets inside beaker with chemicals and beakers inside ultrasonic filled with water). Therefore it calls for at least 3 beakers containing: cleaning fluid, rinsing fluid (dirtyish) and rinsing fluid (clean) = Three 10 min steps.

 

If in addition you clean other watch parts (wristbands/bracelets, backs, etc) it might take a good evening just doing that.

 

I personally have baskets that fit inside the beakers so I can lift the content of the beaker easily but it doesn't save time, just convenience. Therefore, I get everything I need to clean and clean it in one designated day. Then work on them another day.

 

It is noted that pre-cleaning preparation is important since all jewels need to be examined, pegged and examined one more time. It all adds to the cleaning process.

 

I hope this insight may help your choices,

 

Cheers,

 

Bob

 

PS. I would recommend a search on cleaning and cleaners in this forum too, very helpful to read other opinions and techniques on this interesting topic.

PS2. Lighter fluid is good but won't be safe in the ultrasonic. I rather use it for hand cleaning like in the old times.

Edited January 4, 2015 by bobm12

[DrRock]

Excellent advice, Bob, as always.  Thank you for that.

 

Just re the drying - would warm air drying be good, or is it a no-no for some reason?  Most surgical instruments are dried that way after cleaning, including ultrasonic cleaning. Some others with bits that are hard to reach are dried using acetone and warm air. I doubt that acetone would be good for watch parts though - am I right?

 

A simple warm air drier could be made using a box, a hood over the box, and a hairdrier set to its slowest speed blowing gently up into the hood - NOT into the box directly. With watch parts still in baskets, would that be any good rather than hand drying them?

Edited January 4, 2015 by DrRock

[bobm12]

That is correct Pete, heated blow dry is used by many people (example: hair dryer as you indicated). I personally have no experience with this method since I do mine by hand: holding the part with tweezers and blowing with hand pump. Acetone, alcohol and heat are a problem with pallet forks and balance wheel jewels since they are usually held in place with shellac.

 

I'm always afraid of blowing stuff into a watchmaker's black hole so I try not to even breath when manipulating the tiny parts. Somehow my system works considering my workroom is cluttered with many different and unrelated stuff, from reloading equipment to musical instruments to bookshelves to boxes full of tools and whatnots to my watchmaker hobby mini desk close to computer equipment in a corner....you get the picture. Part that falls is never found as a general rule although I've worked a mathematical equation, based in chaos theory, in which it is necessary to drop 4 parts to find the 5th dropped part, not necessarily the last one dropped. :)

Edited January 4, 2015 by bobm12

[BlakeL]

I disassembled one of the ten movement tonight. I think i'm getting the hang of it! A few of the parts like the escape wheel and pallet seemed to be stuck in the jewel so it took a little extra pressure.  Probably gunked up with dried oil like you guys said.

[DrRock]

@bobm12: Your man cave sounds very similar to mine, Bob :) I'm flat out finding floor space to step on!

 

One thing I did make, due to being a keen fly tyer for my trout fishing, is a three-sided "fence". It is made from some walnut, with each of the three sides (like a square with one side missing) is about 600mm long (about 2ft in the old lingo). The boards themselves are 80mm (about 3") which therefore is the height of the "fence". Some of the materials used in trying trout flies are virtually weightless (eg CDC feathers) and simply breathing out can make them take off over the horizon! But lots of things like tiny beads, hooks, bits of tinsel, etc etc all tend to roll or move - and all are stopped by the "fence". I keep everything inside the fence - i.e. where I'm working - clear, with tools, materials, etc all stashed outside the fence.

 

I'm now using that same fence for learning about watches. I've had one piece fly over the top when I wasn't smart enough to hold down a spring clip, but otherwise things have been stopped by the fence.

 

@Blake: would be very interested to hear if you succeeded in getting those el cheapo movements to work, since I've also ordered a couple of packs like you did.

 

--
Pete, Brisbane
============
 

[DrRock]

Correction to the above post - I just measured the sides of my "fence" and they are 450mm long, not 600mm. So that's about 18" for you 'Murkins... :crazysmile:

 

Those dimensions give me enough room to get my forearms rested on the bench. When I'm tying flies, the vice is clamped to the front of the bench/desk, and I usually mount it towards the left side, with the business end pointing to the right and ending up about half way across the front. If you get my drift...

 

Unclamp the fly tying vice, pop it in the drawer, and hey presto - a watch fiddling bench :D

[bobm12]

Excellent idea Pete, I'll be interested in seeing a picture of your set up (fly and watch) since I do a little fishing myself too...if it OK to post it.

[BlakeL]

You guys think this is a good deal at $90? Would take about a 1.5-2 hour drive to go get it but the guy says it all works just has a half broken knob. Wife said we could take a day trip to go get so its good she's on board. I could restore it pretty easily like the other post I recently saw on here. It also included some of the metal mesh baskets.

Edited January 4, 2015 by BlakeL

[bobm12]

Hi Blake,

 

I'm not familiar with those but I've seen the link to Micky's restoration which is super amazing.

 

To me, it seems a bit "used", that machine, but if it is still working - and you are handy and can restore it, - I see no reason why it should be a bad deal. It actually seems like a fun project if you actually enjoy doing that type of work. I believe they go for a lot more out there...but then, don't quote me since, as I said before, I'm not familiar with it...Won't hurt to at least have a look and it is still a good opportunity to enjoy a leisure trip with the wife.

 

In any case, maybe another member has a better opinion.

 

Cheers,

 

Bob