ETA 255.411

[Mkay]

Hello everyone,

I've been working on a ETA 255.114 that I need some insight on. This is the first time running into something like this.

Initial Symptom: Watch not running, unable to adjust time. Stem and crown was not engaging.

Sounds like maybe Setting lever jumper, or Stop lever and switch issues.

Strip everything down and did an overhaul. the setting lever jumper was off. so that was most likely the issues with the stem and crown not engaging.

put everything back together but it seems the Third wheel wasn't moving. when adjusting the time it has a clicking noise. Most likely Stop lever and switch trying to turn the Third wheel but since it not moving it just making the clicking noise.

Looks like the gear under the third wheel is seized. on the front side I've oiled it also and its not moving at all. Would this be something that i could soak in cleaning solution longer ? it was in a heated ultra sonic for at lease 10mins and still its not moving. is this something I try to maybe tap out? and then reset? with a complete strip down of both sides of the movement this gear here is the only non moving part.

 

Any insight would be great thank you to those who took the time and read this post

 

Mkay

 

 

26_ETA255.1xx,ETA255.4xx.pdf

[HSL]

I'm not really sure what gear you are refering too since the movement seems quite stripped, the quick date wheel is press fitted and will not get loose very easy.
I made a small tutorial with the ETA 255.111 which is nearly identical to 255.411 before you might take a peek in that one since it sounds you didn't get the movement completely together.
Once the keyless work is correctly assembled the wheel should run freely again.

Just out of curiousity I see you marked your picture with a blue area, is there something stuck there? To clarify I attach a picture with a 255.411.
 

[HSL]

Had a minute over and thought about your noise, Here is a close up on how the stop lever should look like when it is engaged when you set the time.
The stop breaks the center wheel and thats how the whole drivetrain is put into "Idle" mode and the whole drivetrain should be stopped and can't move.
When you set the time only the sliding pinion is turning the cannon pinion which should slipp on the drivegrear.

The only clicking noise you can get in this state is from the minute train and the date part or the  cannon pinion with integrated drive gear. 

The most of the times when these movements stop it's because of dirt on the pads the switch lever is touching, cleaning em up mostly gets it going if the movement is correctly assembled.

 

[Mkay]

Hello HSL,

I will double check tonight when i have time to look over the watch again and I'll take some better images and maybe some video to show what the issues is.

 

Thanks again for your time on this

 

Mkay

[Mkay]

Okay so I had some time tonight so kinda break down everything I'm seeing now . This is the issues I am having with this watch. Any insight would be great! Cause I'm currently pretty stumped .

 

Thank you for to anyone who is taking a look.

 

Mkay

[HSL]

In IMG_1927.MOV one can see the second hand move perfectly so it indicates there probably isn't any problems with the drivetrain but rather with the setting.
I asume you oiled the drivetrain with Moeibus 9014 or similar.

But if you want to test if the drivetrain goes free you have to take away the cannon pinion with the integrated driving gear otherwise you will have the whole minute train breaking the third wheel, it will not budge when you push it.

As I told you before the stop lever will also lock the whole drivetrain by breaking the center wheel. This is done to stop the second hand quick and dirty.
So it is completely OK nothing moves in the drivetrain when you pull the crown out into setting position (3). The switch is also pushed onto the stop nob which turns the stepping motor off.

To get into the problem why you can't set the time on your movement one have to look into how the setting is done, and remember the drivetrain is disengaged in this operation, the third wheel will be locked.

So to do this we have to turn the movement around to the dial side.

The setting of the minute and hour is done by the setting wheel (450) which gets engaged by the sliding pinion (407) which is pushed into place by the yoke assembled (435).
 
When winding on the crown the setting wheel is rotating the minute wheel (260) which in turn is rotating the cannon pinion (242).The cannon pinion is your minute setting component. The cannon pinion is attached to the drive wheel and kept in place by springs on the drive wheel. 
You should lubricate this contact point with thick oil like Moebius 9501 or similar so you get a nice and smooth rotation.
The setting of the hour is done by the small pinion on top of the minute wheel, the hour wheel(255) is rotating indepenently around the cannon pinion and this is your hour setting.
The date change is driven by the intermediate date wheel (2543).This wheel is driven by the hour wheel, so when setting the time the hour wheel will still be engaged in the date set. The intermediate date wheel is moving the date indicator driving wheel (2556).
This is how the time set is working, when some of the components described here isn't correctly assebled you will hear a clicking sound like in your movement.
It is caused by the sliding pinion jumping on the setting wheels gears. You also can see no movement of the hands while trying to set the time.  The reason can be some wheel in the minute train is jammed, somthing in the date train isn't aligned, or the joke assembled is not correctly assembled. 
So by the reasoning I have done above of the setting function I don't think it is any wrong with your third wheel since it is not engaged during the setting procedure. As long you have the cannon pinion inplace it will be hard to move it too.
I hope my English is good enough for you to follow.....

[Mkay]

It's been nearly a month but finally got some spare time to look at this again. Ty for the reply HSL. I double check everything again and still have issues. was thinking it was an issues with the canon pinon but that doesn't seem like the case. After taking this watch apart quite a few time it seems to work for awhile and then the stop lever and switch or something is slipping. everything seems to work perfect until i put everything together again use it for a bit and then just stops working. I took a video of putting everything back together again works perfect and the once electronic module and the covers on it seems to just stop working again. Note that this movement has been taken apart a few times and needs to be re cleaned and oiled once i find the reason the canon pinon just stop working. So once i figure everything out. Ill re-ultra sonic and oil everything again. video is also raw footage, sorry about the loud vent sounds forgot to turn it off before recording.

 

Thanks You

For everyone time who is reading the post.

Mkay

 

 

Edited September 6, 2019 by Mkay

[watchweasol]

Having watched your video, every thing seems to work ok untill you reassemble the circuit board an the plates after that it jams, try to work in reverse removing one item then retrying and so on It may be a screw in the wrong place. By going in reverse you will eventually remove a part and it works again .   HSL has given you a very comprehensive description of how it works now to find out why it fails. Did the watch work ok before you took it apart, and for what reason did you take it apart, was it a non worker in the first place all these are relavent.