Eta 6497-1 Freezes When Wound

[Timezone]

Hello:

 

The 6497-1 has had it's 2nd & 3rd wheel replaced, along with the escape wheel and pallet fork.  When I broke the balance assembly trying to remove the Novadiac spring, I had that replaced also.  I probably could have bought a new movement at this stage but I shouldered on.  I've disassembled and reassembled the movement several times but the movement either "freezes" or "locks up" and sometimes the center wheel just spins when wound.   The mainspring "seems" to be working ok.  The balance spins fine when moved. Of course I'm a novice but I've learned a lot from my mistakes during this agonizing process.  The movement is brand new and worked fine before I touched it. The keyless works and the motion works  seem to be okay.  The click is also fine. I haven't tried to lubricate anything yet.

 

Thanks for your advice.

 

Timezone

(Rich) :pulling-hair-out:

[frenchie]

Were all the wheels turning fine with just the training bridge in place ? A puff of air should be enough to turn them.

 

If they did, add the mainspring to the mix (mainspring and keyless works). Wind the mainsprings a couple of clicks: All the wheels should turn without a problem; there should be no hesitation, no skipping, no scary noises.

 

If that's all good, put the pallet fork back in. Give the mainspring another couple of clicks, and move the pallet fork with a puff of air. It should move freely, from side to side, and be very snappy. Make sure the escape wheel only moves one step at a time.

 

Also, what do you mean by "freezes" or "locks up" ?

Does it run fine for some time and then just stops randomly ?

[bobm12]

Is the crown wheel right side up (or the ratchet wheel, I don't remember which is the one you can put upside down and gives a lot of grief when you do)?

[Timezone]

Were all the wheels turning fine with just the training bridge in place ? A puff of air should be enough to turn them.

 

If they did, add the mainspring to the mix (mainspring and keyless works). Wind the mainsprings a couple of clicks: All the wheels should turn without a problem; there should be no hesitation, no skipping, no scary noises.

 

If that's all good, put the pallet fork back in. Give the mainspring another couple of clicks, and move the pallet fork with a puff of air. It should move freely, from side to side, and be very snappy. Make sure the escape wheel only moves one step at a time.

 

Also, what do you mean by "freezes" or "locks up" ?

Does it run fine for some time and then just stops randomly ?

Hi:

 

Thanks for the reply.  I'll try your instructions.  I haven't done any of that so far but I will now.  By freezes up or locks up I mean nothing turns at all  but there is tension when you release the click.  Everything stays locked up. I'll get back with the results of your suggestion.

 

Thanks again,

 

Timezone

[oldhippy]

You say sometimes the center wheel just spins round, this sounds as if the train wheels are not engaging properly. I would check to see if you have all the wheel train fitted correctly. Another thing that might be at fault is if there is to much end shake in the wheels, or a jewel might be lose or cracked. 

[Timezone]

Is the crown wheel right side up (or the ratchet wheel, I don't remember which is the one you can put upside down and gives a lot of grief when you do)?

Hi:

 

Thanks for the reply.  I checked the ratchet wheel and the whole wheel train against a photo from ETA and their all in the right place.  But it was a good suggestion.

 

Timezone

[Timezone]

You say sometimes the center wheel just spins round, this sounds as if the train wheels are not engaging properly. I would check to see if you have all the wheel train fitted correctly. Another thing that might be at fault is if there is to much end shake in the wheels, or a jewel might be lose or cracked. 

Hi:

 

Thanks for your reply.  I just noticed that my second escape wheel which I just received in good condition has apparently lost it's pivot tip.  It looks blunt under the loupe.  That was the problem with the first one so that may be where I'm going wrong. It will not stay put in it's spot.   But in the meantime i'll check the end shake and jewels and I've already checked the wheel train about five times.

 

Thanks again.

 

Timezone

[ramrod]

this is sounding like it's your problem. the second wheel is possibly binding against the side of the jewel where the pivot is missing. once bound, it would need a release of spring tension to release it.

[Timezone]

this is sounding like it's your problem. the second wheel is possibly binding against the side of the jewel where the pivot is missing. once bound, it would need a release of spring tension to release it.

Yes, that sounds like what's happening.  I've ordered yet another escapement wheel to see if that's the culprit.

 

Thanks for your advice.

 

Timezone

[Timezone]

Hi:

 

Thanks for the reply.  I'll try your instructions.  I haven't done any of that so far but I will now.  By freezes up or locks up I mean nothing turns at all  but there is tension when you release the click.  Everything stays locked up. I'll get back with the results of your suggestion.

 

Thanks again,

 

Timezone

Frenchie:   When I try to check the movement  with the training bridge the escapement wheel keeps kicking out of it's pivot.  

As I said in an earlier post the pivot tip seems to be missing when i put it under the loupe.  This has happened twice now.  The wheel will not stay in place.  the thing that baffles me is that the very first time I installed the 2nd escape wheel the unit "froze" up so I don't know if this is the cause or something is causing the pivot to break off. The jewel looks ok and I can't see any metal or debris in the jewel.  Ramrod had suggested that the jewel might be at fault causing the binding.  Looks like I'll have to wait for the escape wheel to arrive, no?

 

Timezone 

Edited February 25, 2016 by Timezone

[Timezone]

Frenchie:   When I try to check the movement  with the training bridge the escapement wheel keeps kicking out of it's pivot.  

As I said in an earlier post the pivot tip seems to be missing when i put it under the loupe.  This has happened twice now.  The wheel will not stay in place.  the thing that baffles me is that the very first time I installed the 2nd escape wheel the unit "froze" up so I don't know if this is the cause or something is causing the pivot to break off. The jewel looks ok and I can't see any metal or debris in the jewel.  Ramrod had suggested that the jewel might be at fault causing the binding.  Looks like I'll have to wait for the escape wheel to arrive, no?

 

Timezone 

[frenchie]

Frenchie:   When I try to check the movement  with the training bridge the escapement wheel keeps kicking out of it's pivot.  

As I said in an earlier post the pivot tip seems to be missing when i put it under the loupe.  This has happened twice now.  The wheel will not stay in place.  the thing that baffles me is that the very first time I installed the 2nd escape wheel the unit "froze" up so I don't know if this is the cause or something is causing the pivot to break off. The jewel looks ok and I can't see any metal or debris in the jewel.  Ramrod had suggested that the jewel might be at fault causing the binding.  Looks like I'll have to wait for the escape wheel to arrive, no?

 

Timezone 

 

Yes, you are correct. Sometimes it's hard to see a fine crack in the jewel. Look at in the light while tilting the movement up and down and from side to side, this should really show you anything wrong with the jewel (a small crack will catch the light or cast a shadow).

 

If the jewel is fine, make sure you are very gentle when you fit the bridge, so that you don't accidentally start screwing it down while a pivot is not fully in the jewel (it would snap). You can do the puff of air test with the bridge just held down by a piece of pegwood, no screws (gentle puff, or the bridge can fly off... been there, done that ;)). If all is spinning well, then put in the screws. After each screw, test again.

[Timezone]

Yes, you are correct. Sometimes it's hard to see a fine crack in the jewel. Look at in the light while tilting the movement up and down and from side to side, this should really show you anything wrong with the jewel (a small crack will catch the light or cast a shadow).

 

If the jewel is fine, make sure you are very gentle when you fit the bridge, so that you don't accidentally start screwing it down while a pivot is not fully in the jewel (it would snap). You can do the puff of air test with the bridge just held down by a piece of pegwood, no screws (gentle puff, or the bridge can fly off... been there, done that ;)). If all is spinning well, then put in the screws. After each screw, test again.

Hi Frenchie:

 

When I run the movement w/o pallet & balance the escape wheel does not stay under the bridge even though I thought it was captured.  Without the escape wheel when I wind, everything else moves smoothly with the bridge in place. I don't know why I keep blunting the escape wheel.  I'll be super careful with the next one.  Thanks for your help.

 

Timezone :pulling-hair-out:

[Timezone]

Hi:

 

Thanks for your reply.  I just noticed that my second escape wheel which I just received in good condition has apparently lost it's pivot tip.  It looks blunt under the loupe.  That was the problem with the first one so that may be where I'm going wrong. It will not stay put in it's spot.   But in the meantime i'll check the end shake and jewels and I've already checked the wheel train about five times.

 

Thanks again.

 

Timezone

Here's a view of the escape wheel:

[frenchie]

The bottom pivot is missing.

 

When you put it in the movement, make sure the bottom pivot is seated properly before adding the bridge.

 

Take your time, you'll get it !!

[Timezone]

:pulling-hair-out:

 

Frenchie:

 

Thanks for taking the time to respond.  Yes, I hope "I'll get it! " I'll be extra careful from here on out.  

 

 

Thanks again,

Timezone

(Rich)