ETA 2472 Service Walkthrough - Damaged stone/ruby on the automatic module

[cor9brg]

I have excatly the same problem as described by AlexavderB in his post:

https://www.watchrepairtalk.com/topic/4422-eta-2472-service-walkthrough/?do=findComment&comment=44949

I was just wondering if somebody could help me identify the correct dimensions of a replacement stone and where to purchase it...

Thanks!

Best Regards,

Manuel

[cor9brg]

I have found on CousinsUK the following:

 - Centre Wheel Jewels - J47496

https://www.cousinsuk.com/basket#:~:text=×-,Centre Wheel Jewels,J47496,-Added to Favourites

- Jewel Holes - J47497

https://www.cousinsuk.com/basket#:~:text=×-,Jewel Holes,J47497,-Added to Favourites

Any idea if any of these assortments could help me solve my problem?

Thanks!

 

[cor9brg]

Further research and I found this site to be quite interesting:

https://chrononautix.com/lagersteine-juwelen-rubine-uhren/

I probably need a "Lochstein Flach, zylindrische Bohrung mit Ölsenkung" see Number 3...

Any thoughts?

Here a picture of a good part:

Edited November 19, 2024 by cor9brg

[Klassiker]

The jewel you need is more complicated / specialised in its form than a simple "Lochstein Flach, zylindrische Bohrung mit Ölsenkung". (That's an intersting blog, by the way. Thanks for linking to it.)

You might get lucky with the Cousins set J47496. I can't find any documents identifying the jewel itself, but the bridge is part 1134 Framework for automatic device. If you have to buy 1134, some sellers have them without jewels, so beware of that.

[Nucejoe]

@cor9brg where are you stationed?  

Please indicate where you are in your introduction. 

A member close to you might have the exact part you need and be willing to help/ donate/ gift .... 

[cor9brg]

8 hours ago, Klassiker said:

The jewel you need is more complicated / specialised in its form than a simple "Lochstein Flach, zylindrische Bohrung mit Ölsenkung". (That's an intersting blog, by the way. Thanks for linking to it.)

You might get lucky with the Cousins set J47496. I can't find any documents identifying the jewel itself, but the bridge is part 1134 Framework for automatic device. If you have to buy 1134, some sellers have them without jewels, so beware of that.

Thanks for the Information! Probably that will be the next best option -> to purchase a donor movement and use the 1134 Framework. Yes, I was until now also not successfull in finding any documentation containing information on the jewel itself... Neither does the movement datasheet contain such information... I have uploaded it -> maybe interesting for other readers...

ETA 2472.pdf

[Nucejoe]

Many parts off 2472 variants interchange,

Go on to mizeni web site  or Dr ranfft's   to see variants to 2472 base movement.

The 17 jewels web site also might list variants to ETA 2472 family.

 

 

Edited November 20, 2024 by Nucejoe
correction

[cor9brg]

On 11/20/2024 at 7:59 PM, cor9brg said:

Thanks for the Information! Probably that will be the next best option -> to purchase a donor movement and use the 1134 Framework. Yes, I was until now also not successfull in finding any documentation containing information on the jewel itself... Neither does the movement datasheet contain such information... I have uploaded it -> maybe interesting for other readers...

ETA 2472.pdf 3.76 MB · 16 downloads

I think I have discovered the ETA number as being "ETA 2452 Part Number 1487 (Jewel For Bearing Wheel)". In the Datasheet there is no mention to such a part number. Additionally, I am not sure if it is the upper or lower jewel of the framework, and if they are even compatible to each other... I have found only one seller that has such a jewel, but unfortunately (including shipping) is around 40 EUR!! Therefore not feasible for me... Would appreciate any thoughts on that... Thanks!

Edited November 27, 2024 by cor9brg

[AndyGSi]

Could you not just get a replacement bridge and swap the jewel?

[cor9brg]

19 hours ago, AndyGSi said:

Could you not just get a replacement bridge and swap the jewel?

Yes AndyGSI, your are right, that would probably be one of the best options. I do however have to source a replacement bridge as I don´t have one...

BTW, I do remain curious, as there is not much information out there on the type and availibilty of such a jewel... How did the watchmakers 40, 50 years ago approach such a problem? Thanks!

[AndyGSi]

49 minutes ago, cor9brg said:

Yes AndyGSI, your are right, that would probably be one of the best options. I do however have to source a replacement bridge as I don´t have one...

They're not that expensive.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/135353225104

49 minutes ago, cor9brg said:

Yes AndyGSI, your are right, that would probably be one of the best options. I do however have to source a replacement bridge as I don´t have one...

BTW, I do remain curious, as there is not much information out there on the type and availibilty of such a jewel... How did the watchmakers 40, 50 years ago approach such a problem? Thanks!

I expect they had good old fashioned books to look at.

[cor9brg]

1 hour ago, AndyGSi said:

They're not that expensive.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/135353225104

I expect they had good old fashioned books to look at.

Thanks AndyGSI for sharing the link!

[cor9brg]

Just an update: maybe interesting for someone having the same problem in future...

I decided on going both ways:

 - I purchased the Cousins jewels set J47496

- I purchased a replacement bridge

As can be seen on the pictures the "Cousins set J47496" is definitely not suitable for my problem. So the replacement bridge will be the way to go...

Still not decided:

- To use the jewel / stone from the replacement bridge onto my original part -> I do not have a staking set, neither any clue on how to remove it as there are two jewels on the bridge, one on each side. Any thoughts or comments on that?

- Or simply use the complete replacement bridge. Not really happy with the thought as the watch will not be original anymore...

Will be happy to get any feedback. Thanks!

[Klassiker]

Use the replacement bridge until you acquire more knowledge and tools?

[Neverenoughwatches]

Without a jewelling tool to press one out and one in , you wont be able to do this effectively.  Klassiker's suggestion will get the watch on your wrist, you can cope with it being temporarily non original.  I like it though, you think like me and want to keep the watch as it was made, I'm not a big fan of part swapping although I know it is often the only option for amateurs.

[cor9brg]

11 hours ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

Without a jewelling tool to press one out and one in , you wont be able to do this effectively.  Klassiker's suggestion will get the watch on your wrist, you can cope with it being temporarily non original.  I like it though, you think like me and want to keep the watch as it was made, I'm not a big fan of part swapping although I know it is often the only option for amateurs.

As of today I stand corrected - I just picked up my new Boley Staking set  (from a private seller -> his grandfather was a watchmaker). Do you think it possible to use it instead of a jewelling tool to press out and in the jewel?

[Knebo]

20 minutes ago, cor9brg said:

As of today I stand corrected - I just picked up my new Boley Staking set  (from a private seller -> his grandfather was a watchmaker). Do you think it possible to use it instead of a jewelling tool to press out and in the jewel?

Great staking set! I have the exact same and love it. Congratulations on an excellent buy. 

Is the jewel aligning with the metal? If so, maybe you could. If it's not, there's no way you can control the depth of the jewel with the staking set. 

I've never used a staking set for jewelling, but I think I've heard others do it. But obviously, a Seitz or Horia jewelling tool should normally be the safer choice. 

 

[Neverenoughwatches]

29 minutes ago, cor9brg said:

As of today I stand corrected - I just picked up my new Boley Staking set  (from a private seller -> his grandfather was a watchmaker). Do you think it possible to use it instead of a jewelling tool to press out and in the jewel?

Not this type really, It's not something I would attempt, I'm sure there are those that do and certainly did do it without a jeweling tool. Friction jewels do need to be positioned accurately and set to the correct depth required, which is why the jewelling tool is used and was created, amongst its other uses.

[cor9brg]

On 12/8/2024 at 9:28 PM, Knebo said:

Great staking set! I have the exact same and love it. Congratulations on an excellent buy. 

Is the jewel aligning with the metal? If so, maybe you could. If it's not, there's no way you can control the depth of the jewel with the staking set. 

I've never used a staking set for jewelling, but I think I've heard others do it. But obviously, a Seitz or Horia jewelling tool should normally be the safer choice. 

 

@Knebo: great to know that you have the exact same type of staking set. However on mine there are some empty positions Anvils(?) + the numbering 179, ... 109. Do you have an idea what could be missing on my set? Do you have some pictures? My guess is that my set is from the 70´s or do you by chance know a preciser date range? Thanks! 

[Knebo]

Hey @cor9brg, 

Don't worry about the missing stumps/anvils. Not so important and you have plenty of sizes (plus the flat stakes that can be used inverted). I actually have more missing ones in those inner rows. 

The pocket in the front right (69-209) is for reamers. I think these were an add-on option because most sets I've seen (including mine) don't have them. I have reamers in my Seitz tool, so no need for me. 

Here is the manual:

Boley set.pdf

 

(I also don't have the jewelling adapter. My Seitz for that again.) 

[nevenbekriev]

On 12/7/2024 at 10:08 PM, cor9brg said:

Just an update: maybe interesting for someone having the same problem in future...

I decided on going both ways:

 - I purchased the Cousins jewels set J47496

- I purchased a replacement bridge

As can be seen on the pictures the "Cousins set J47496" is definitely not suitable for my problem. So the replacement bridge will be the way to go...

Still not decided:

- To use the jewel / stone from the replacement bridge onto my original part -> I do not have a staking set, neither any clue on how to remove it as there are two jewels on the bridge, one on each side. Any thoughts or comments on that?

- Or simply use the complete replacement bridge. Not really happy with the thought as the watch will not be original anymore...

Will be happy to get any feedback. Thanks!

@cor9brg, I guess one of the jewels is broken, right? Then You can remove it by destroying it. Then You will be able to measure the hole diameter. The other measure You need is the shaft diameter. One option is to make phosphorous bronze bush to replace the jewel. Pressing the jewels out is risky operation, as one of them will have to go all the way through the hole. If one of the jewels is removed (by destroying it), then the other will get out easier. Sourcing such big jewels can be problematic, but big jewels are used sometimes in clocks, so searching among clock parts is some kind of idea. Russian ship cabin clocks have similar big stones.