Seiko 5606 offset cannon pinion & differential wheel

[Malocchio]

Hello. I'm servicing a Seiko Lord Matic with 5606 movement in it. There is an offset cannon pinion and I'm not certain how should I deal with it. I've watched several service videos but everyone seems to just disassemble the movement and do nothing to the cannon pinion. Someone said you should put oil in the small gap but no word about taking the cannon pinion off the large driving wheel pinion. Putting oil to non-cleaned parts is bad, I know that. Seiko technical documentation mentions that the cannon pinion is friction fitted and works like cannon pinions normally do. There is also a mention not to caulk the pinion? If loose hand setting is encountered the large driving wheel with cannon pinion should be replaced. 

So, I don't see why the parts shouldn't be taken apart, cleaned and greased like usual. Am I missing something? Here are pics taken from the service manual:

Large driving wheel is here called a center wheel although it's not in the center.

Second question is about the differential wheel. Manual says to just lubricate some of the teeth but I watched Spencer Klein service one and he did the "Lubeta v105 dip" for the whole part except he did his own mixture of oil and alcohol. I'd like to believe he has a lot of experience on these and he knows what to do. Why wouldn't the official way be best? Pic from manual here:

Thanks for any ideas

[Nucejoe]

I remove the canon pinion, inspect, clean and grease it.

L v105 and alcohol mixture is prefered, cuz not a single spot is left uncovered .  

 

 

 

 

[rjenkinsgb]

By chance I was studying the 5606 earlier today, as I have a watch on the way with that movement!

From what I see, the off-centre cannon pinion is the friction fit one, and the centre "cannon pinion" is actually a freely rotating part driven by the by the minute wheel from the friction cannon pinion.

[JohnR725]

5 hours ago, Malocchio said:

several service videos

Servicing videos online are always quite interesting. One of the problems with some of the channels especially the ones that are extremely popular is do they really have to do it correctly? When you're making an entertaining video does it have to be done technically correct and the answer is of course not because they're making lots of money off making entertaining videos.

I'm attaching a slightly different lubrication chart. We end up with the interesting problem of two cannon pinions with one of them for the friction and the other one has just sits there. You look at the parts list the center wheel with its short cannon pinion is shown as one component. Which we give the impression that normally they would not come apart. Because if they normally came apart it seems like they would be listed as two separate components.

5 hours ago, Malocchio said:

cleaned and greased like usual.

Normally yes we would use grease but very clearly their using 9010 which is a light oil. I don't suppose you have a replacement one in case disassembly does not work out well for you?

 

Seiko-Oil-5606A.pdf

[Malocchio]

3 hours ago, JohnR725 said:

Servicing videos online are always quite interesting. One of the problems with some of the channels especially the ones that are extremely popular is do they really have to do it correctly? When you're making an entertaining video does it have to be done technically correct and the answer is of course not because they're making lots of money off making entertaining videos.

I'm attaching a slightly different lubrication chart. We end up with the interesting problem of two cannon pinions with one of them for the friction and the other one has just sits there. You look at the parts list the center wheel with its short cannon pinion is shown as one component. Which we give the impression that normally they would not come apart. Because if they normally came apart it seems like they would be listed as two separate components.

Normally yes we would use grease but very clearly their using 9010 which is a light oil. I don't suppose you have a replacement one in case disassembly does not work out well for you?

 

Seiko-Oil-5606A.pdf 1.03 MB · 1 download

Yeah have to take all videos with a grain of salt. So that must be the oiling diagram the service manual was referring to. I felt that something's missing, thanks! I've seen some of those but I didn't have this one. I have a donor movement I tried the removing on. I used a method I saw somewhere - you put the wheel on a staking block and an exacto knife blade (with a hole in the "shaft") over the wheel and then pry the cannon pinion up with hand removing levers. That's pretty clever, you get more leverage and the blade holds the wheel flat against the block. 

Maybe the two parts are listed as one because they were meant to be replaced as a whole unit, just like a barrel.

[RichardS]

I worked on a 5626 for the first time last year and this had a similar cannon pinion arrangement. I didn't want to push my skills or luck at the time so I left the cannon pinion on the driving wheel and just oiled through the gap after cleaning (despite all the gunk that must have still been in there). Still worked out fine in the end. All of Seiko's documentation seemed to imply that it couldn't be disassembled so I followed that. But kudos to those who have tried and succeeded!

Similarly with the differential wheel, I just followed Seiko's instructions and put blobs of the dark S4 grease where shown. Worked well but I Imagine it will be a pain to clean up during the next service.