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Functional quartz, but hands can be set outside case only


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Hello all, my first question here - apologies if I get some terms wrong...

I'm trying to fix a 25-year old Mondaine Swiss railway watch. The problem was that the time couldn't be changed, as the hands didn't move when the crown was pulled out. 

I opened it up to find lots of filth inside - tiny loose flakes of it all around the Ronda 763 movement.  So I air cleaned it, without taking the movement apart, and tested before putting it back into the case. It worked! Put it back in the case, the stem clicked in nicely. It didn't work. Out works, in doesn't, every time.

Got a new movement and stem (to save time - they're cheap). Same issue.

I can't work it out, what can be wrong? I'll be grateful for any ideas. Many thanks!

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Did you use the old stem when you replaced it with the new movement?

Try using the new stem instead.

And it's a bad idea to air clean a watch movement. Dirt particles can be blown into places where they are not supposed to go. Use peg wood to loosen any dried up dirt and pick it up with a piece of Rodico.

A quartz watch tester is a useful tool when working on quartz.

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Hi As Hector explained blowing particles about only shifts the problem temporarily. Also did you use the new stem or the old one . Did you cut the new stem the same as the old one, many questions. If you cut the new stem to match the old one and got the same problem it looks like the stem was wrong in the first place and not engaging the keyless work correctly as it was short. Hence the reason it works with out the case  in the way.  If that is the case you need a new stem cut to the correct length .

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Thank you HectorLooi, much appreciated. 

I used the new stem and it clicks in and out to the winding point perfectly, but only winds when the watch is out of the case.

Thank you for your good cleaning pointers - I'm happy to say  I used air after peg and Rodico. Clumsily abbreviated it, to save time. Air might still not have been a good move 😳, but it seems there must be a different problem.

Taking a closer look, I noticed the stem comes through the case tube at a very slight angle. I'm thinking the tube might have been knocked slightly off kilter. Is that possible? I'll experiment.

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Thank you watchweasol, I appreciate your helpful suggestions.

I cut the new stem by measuring, marking, snipping and filing (following instructions in a book). When inserting the stem into the watch fully, it clicks into place and the watch works; pulling it out to the click, stops the watch, but winding doesn't work. As it happens, it's the same length as the old stem.

Would a stem cut too long simply make the crown stick out or could it be pushed in too far and damage something inside the movement? I don't believe that's an issue, but it might be worth considering.

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5 minutes ago, RichardHarris123 said:

I'm confused, isn't it a quartz watch? 

Yes, it is. No keyless work, right? But I suppose stem still needs to be right.

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@Zelda as Richard said, from the information you have given this is a quartz watch. This being so it’s stem positions are “run” and “hand set”, it does not wind being a battery powered watch.

 

Tom

Here is the ronda page with technical information on this movement which might be useful too

 

https://www.ronda.ch/en/productfinder/caliber/763

 

Tom

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5 minutes ago, tomh207 said:

@Zelda as Richard said, from the information you have given this is a quartz watch. This being so it’s stem positions are “run” and “hand set”, it does not wind being a battery powered watch.

 

Tom

Oh dear, terms! Sorry for the confusion. So it's 'run' when it's fully inserted and "hand set" when it's pulled out to the click. That's very helpful, thanks!

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I want to thank you all for your questions and suggestions.

The case tube is definitely a fraction lower than the stem hole. I don't know if the tube can be knocked out of alignment, or even if it's the original movement, or a 'best-fit' replacement, but I've now checked both the old and new Ronda 763 movements and found the same problem with both. Without the case gasket the stem pushes the movement up at a slight angle. That must cause misalignment when it's all pressed together, the lack of pressure being why it works fine outside the case. Incidentally, also in the case, if I let it hover at the 'comfortable' angle when setting the hands.

Is there a best practice solution to a problem like that? Is it safe/advisable to try to adjust the case tube in some way?

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Maybe the movement was already replaced and it’s not the original. This could be very likely if it was originally a stop-2-go movement as mondaine stopped using them and they became obsolete as mondaine has the rights over that technology. 
 

Tom

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59 minutes ago, RichardHarris123 said:

Please post photos, I'm confused.  I know what a case tube is but I would if thought that stem hole was basically the same thing. 

Here's the top down view through the case tube (yellow arrow) to the stem hole in the movement (cyan arrow). Sorry if I'm mincing terms again. I hope this is clearer.

You can see the hole in the movement is a little higher than the case, so, without the case gasket (the plastic surround that keeps the movement in place - if the name is wrong...), the stem pushes the movement into a slight upwards angle at the 9 o'clock side.

I wonder if there's some way of remedying it?

20240526_143247.jpg

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