Questions about my Bravingtons Renown Mantel Clock

[Michael20]

I was wondering whether anyone could assist with some questions I have about my latest acquisition, which is a two train ‘Bravingtons Renown’ mantel clock - Pics attached

I have done some reading about Bravingtons and believe they sourced movements from various suppliers, so I wondered whether anyone recognises this one.

I have stripped and cleaned the movement and the clock is now running well, but there are a couple of dodgy brass springs that I would like to replace. I haven’t found anything suitable searching the internet so I wondered does anyone know of a supplier that might help.

Last question is about the veneer on the case, it is generally in reasonable condition but there are a couple of patches on the top where the veneer has lifted. So far, I have tried to reactivate the existing adhesive by heating from below and above with a hair drier, then clamping for a day or two. It has improved slightly but the bulge is still visible. I’d be grateful for any advice if anyone has dealt with this sort of repair before.

[oldhippy]

 Compression Spring Various Size. This might be helpful. I have watch furniture restorers and how they go about this problem, they inject glue underneath with a syringe and clamp it, leave over night. Next day remove clamp and it smooth. You could use an iron but be careful not to burn the wood. 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/265697329513?chn=ps&_ul=GB&var=565484998457&_trkparms=ispr%3D1&amdata=enc%3A1jd_-94ilTHWZLQ3PxHeC1A73&norover=1&mkevt=1&mkrid=710-134428-41853-0&mkcid=2&mkscid=101&itemid=565484998457_265697329513&targetid=1647205088320&device=c&mktype=pla&googleloc=1006662&poi=&campaignid=17206177401&mkgroupid=136851690655&rlsatarget=pla-1647205088320&abcId=9300866&merchantid=119334104&gad_source=1&gclid=Cj0KCQjwir2xBhC_ARIsAMTXk849TnBArEYdgv1DpHf_somCZYmB7ViqD3UtvNJJc_dn4kj0AFxBXngaArSAEALw_wcB

[Michael20]

Thank you OH, appreciate your input. 

[watchweasol]

Hi. Use a PVA based glue, gorilla glue it dries transparent then do as advised by Old Hippy, smoothe down using very fine  0000 wire wool and either French polish or beeswax for a finish.

[Michael20]

Thanks watchweasol. Still got to figure out where to buy a suitably sizes syringe that can cope with the glue. Anyone know how syringe needles are sized and where they can be bought? 

[RichardHarris123]

Good evening @oldhippy . Could you use something like greaseproof paper under the iron? 

[oldhippy]

1 hour ago, RichardHarris123 said:

Good evening @oldhippy . Could you use something like greaseproof paper under the iron? 

I haven't seen restores do that. But i'm not a furniture restorer. 

[watchweasol]

Hi @Michael20 I think you can get them off eBay. I use the spare ones fron ink cartridge refills, the ends are square cut but will file easy enough. @RichardHarris123 the greaseproof paper trick I believe was to remove marks using a warm not hot iron problem being not melting the veneer glue  which is animal based.

[Michael20]

Thanks again all. Its becoming obvious I'm not a furniture restorer too but I'll let you know how it goes.

[watchweasol]

Hi @Michael20 I am no furniture man my self but it’s just bits and pieces I have picked up over the years. It just takes patience when dealing with things like the cases but most are veneered plain wood. When they get damp and open up that is a problem

[Neverenoughwatches]

1 hour ago, Michael20 said:

Thanks again all. Its becoming obvious I'm not a furniture restorer too but I'll let you know how it goes.

A modern restorer would probably try to inject adhesive as suggested and then weight the repair down. Some damp might have caused the bulge originally.  Traditionally the veneer would have been sliced and glue eased under the two flaps then again weighted back down and refinished once it had cured.  It doesn't look like just an adhesive issue, more than likely expansion of the veneer, worse case it needs a slice taking out. Try some gentle heat on it first , inject glue and weight, to see where it goes.

[Michael20]

Thanks both, I hadn't considered expansion as the cause, I'll take another look at it.

[rjenkinsgb]

I'd suggest using "hide glue" (eg. Titebond) rather than PVA.

That's what is used in musical instruments, specifically as it can be re-worked when heated, rather than being permanent.

 

Also, while PVA wood glues are incredibly strong on clean, bare wood - they are next to useless if there is any old residue sealing the surface of the wood, it just does not bond.

 

[oldhippy]

I have never heard of hide glue. Is it colourless. There are so many glues on the market these days it must be a job knowing what to go for. 

[Dell]

4 hours ago, oldhippy said:

I have never heard of hide glue. Is it colourless. There are so many glues on the market these days it must be a job knowing what to go for. 

I think this is what’s needed 

https://www.originalmarquetry.co.uk/product/pearl-glue/

[rjenkinsgb]

This is the one I use for guitar repairs:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Titebond-5012-Liquid-Hide-Glue/dp/B0006NNJY0/ref=asc_df_B0006NNJY0/?tag=googshopuk-21&linkCode=df0&hvadid=223237768057&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=16212824384025093363&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=1007258&hvtargid=pla-422501086982&mcid=0d99accbc45831df9596e1686fb5359b&th=1

 

[watchweasol]

Hi that’s what was meant by animal glue “ a glue made from animal products”. Ie bone , skin and other animal residues.  There was a place at Huntington YORK who used to boil down the ingredients. It stunk.   We used it in pellet form in a sort of Bain Marie on a gas ring  it was very good, didn’t think it was around any more with the modern glues, 

[rjenkinsgb]

11 hours ago, watchweasol said:

There was a place at Huntington YORK who used to boil down the ingredients. It stunk.

Off topic, but that just brought back an old memory!

My mother once told me about a minor incident as a child (born 1917, so 1920s, at a guess).

She used to use "Fish glue" for a hobby - an apparently smelly glue that had to be heated to be usable - and to heat it gently, she had to stand the tin in the kettle.

 

One day someone filled the kettle without seeing the glue tin.. The tea tasted of fish for some time afterwards!

 

[Michael20]

Thanks all, lots of useful info here. By way of an update I have tried the Iron with a damp cloth method with some success, but unfortunately created a new bubble into which I have inserted PVA glue (should have logged on earlier and read these update with hindsight) that repair is currently clamped so the jury is still out. 

[Neverenoughwatches]

2 hours ago, Michael20 said:

By way of an update I have tried the Iron with a damp cloth method with some success, but unfortunately created a new bubble 

Hmmm you know when i said some damp might have caused the bubble originally hmmm

Edited May 9 by Neverenoughwatches
I thought the post also warranted a frowny face🤨

[Michael20]

Hi Neverenoughwatches, Yep from what I have seen now I'd say you were probably right, the veneer really doesn't like damp. I got lucky with the new bubble - it split the veneer, so I injected some glue and clamped it overnight. See pic for results. Not perfect but I think this is as good as I am going to get it.

[Neverenoughwatches]

2 hours ago, Michael20 said:

Hi Neverenoughwatches, Yep from what I have seen now I'd say you were probably right, the veneer really doesn't like damp. I got lucky with the new bubble - it split the veneer, so I injected some glue and clamped it overnight. See pic for results. Not perfect but I think this is as good as I am going to get it.

Looks great Michael,  just the combination of a damp cloth and iron perplexed me .  Steam will swell the veneer and soften any adhesive underneath. Its amazing what you can do with a little glue, filler and refinishing, good job matey

[watchweasol]

Looking good Michael. A grand job.

[Michael20]

Cheers both - Wife thinks I'm mad ironing clocks!

[Neverenoughwatches]

1 hour ago, Michael20 said:

Cheers both - Wife thinks I'm mad ironing clocks!

I think my missus is mad ironing clothes,  but what do i know ?