Seiko 7009a 876F

[rossjackson01]

Seiko 7009a 876F

Hello to anyone who can advise please. I am struggling to make sense of the Seiko system for parts. 

I have been lucky enough to obtain an excellent 7009a with an 876F case. In excellent condition, but needs a service. This I can do ok.

However, the case has no crystal and I am unable to unravel the myriad of numbers needed to obtain replacement from UK ebay sites or even CousinsUK.  I am not sure as to which type of crystal was inserted. Flat, dome, tension ring etc. As some of you know me, even with my mild dyslexia, I cannot decipher the relevant charts. 

Hope you can help. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you.

Ross

 

Edited February 27, 2024 by rossjackson01
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[mikepilk]

This case doesn't appear in any of the Casing Guides I have

Try the Jules Borel database. http://cgi.julesborel.com/?_ga=2.99547678.1292671413.1673701735-126716363.1672876102

Search using in the Case number with "SEK CS#7009-876"

They show a generic crystal which is used on many cases.

Or just measure and buy a generic crystal from Cousins.

edit -

A search on Cousins using case number, does show a glass -

Edited February 27, 2024 by mikepilk

[rossjackson01]

Thank you. I've no idea how you manage it. Brilliant should be your middle name.

 

I notice on the chart that is shows 7009 876A. Is that compatible with the 7009 876F? Does that letter make a difference?

Edited February 27, 2024 by rossjackson01
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[mikepilk]

I don't know about the A,J or F. I suspect the glass will be the same. The '310' is the size, 31.0 mm. So measure the case to check the size. There will be a thin plastic gasket to go round the glass, so expect the case hole to be slightly larger.

45 minutes ago, rossjackson01 said:

Thank you. I've no idea how you manage it. 

It's not difficult, I just searched for the case  number in Jules Borel and Cousins !

[eccentric59]

1 hour ago, rossjackson01 said:

the chart that is shows 7009 876A. Is that compatible with the 7009 876F? Does that letter make a difference?

From everything I could find, the last digit of the second set of numbers indicate either a region code or a manufacturer code. "A" means Japan origin, but I couldn't find what "F" meant. But it would be a case built to the same spec's so theoretically the crystals should be interchangeable. 

[JohnR725]

3 minutes ago, eccentric59 said:

From everything I could find, the last digit of the second set of numbers indicate either a region code or a manufacturer code. "A" means Japan origin, but I couldn't find what "F" meant. But it would be a case built to the same spec's so theoretically the crystals should be interchangeable. 

something that most people don't seem to realize is watches were designed for specific markets. Then parts available depending upon what they are were stock in the various regions. So if you have a US watch you could ask you US material house which crystal you need and they would probably have it or they could get it. but ask about apart from overseas Seiko in other words not designed for the US market they don't even have a listing for it typically.

This becomes much worse for vintage Seiko watches a lot of those were designed for the Japanese market and there's basically zero parts listing technical information anything because they never realize that the watches would circle the planet and somebody in the UK might be a part for some watch.

then because I'm curious can we have a picture of the case back so I can see all the numbers?

 

 

[rossjackson01]

1 hour ago, JohnR725 said:

then because I'm curious can we have a picture of the case back so I can see all the numbers?

 

 

Certainly. As you say, the A must meant that is was made for the American market.  Not sure about the F inside the square

Do I need to get a seal for the crystal? I have already have a generic one for the back?

Edited February 27, 2024 by rossjackson01
More information

[thor447]

The crystal gasket on that case model is part # EZ2890B04

[JohnR725]

 is amazing what a picture and a fresh set of eyes will do

the case number is 7009 – 876J the letter F in the box no idea what that is for.

Once we have the correct case number we have a match it can be found at the link below.

http://cgi.julesborel.com/cgi-bin/matcgi2?ref=SEK_CS^7009-876J

 

 

[rossjackson01]

1 hour ago, JohnR725 said:

 is amazing what a picture and a fresh set of eyes will do

the case number is 7009 – 876J the letter F in the box no idea what that is for.

Once we have the correct case number we have a match it can be found at the link below.

http://cgi.julesborel.com/cgi-bin/matcgi2?ref=SEK_CS^7009-876J

 

 

Thank you for your help and information. One more question, then I'lI get on with the service.

Sub 310W17GN00 is no longer available.

Generic  CRY-3954G is available

Sub/Generic CRY-3954 is available

Which is the one I should order?

I will also order the gasket # EZ2890B04 to complete a full service. 

 

mikepilk. I did look at the Borel database but was completely lost in trying to understand it. Understood the Cousins one. Thank you.

 

[mikepilk]

24 minutes ago, rossjackson01 said:

Thank you for your help and information. One more question, then I'lI get on with the service.

Sub 310W17GN00 is no longer available.

Yes it is. The pic I posted is from Cousins showing 7 in stock

[JackH]

3 hours ago, JohnR725 said:

 is amazing what a picture and a fresh set of eyes will do

the case number is 7009 – 876J the letter F in the box no idea what that is for.

Once we have the correct case number we have a match it can be found at the link below.

http://cgi.julesborel.com/cgi-bin/matcgi2?ref=SEK_CS^7009-876J

 

 

Seiko has a case service guide. I have a copy but I can't remember where I got it. It should be online with a search. According to the guide, the F is a case construction mark and there are different procedures for the case. Found it: https://seikoserviceusa.com/uploads/datasheets/Servicing_Guide.pdf

 

Edited February 28, 2024 by JackH
add link to guide

[rossjackson01]

7 hours ago, JackH said:

Seiko has a case service guide. I have a copy but I can't remember where I got it. It should be online with a search. According to the guide, the F is a case construction mark and there are different procedures for the case. Found it: https://seikoserviceusa.com/uploads/datasheets/Servicing_Guide.pdf

 

JackH

Don't know how you manage it. Brilliant. Thank you.

Looking at it. Clear as mud. However, I have downloaded the .pdf, and will spend some time(s) going through to begin understand. 

 

Regards to all.

Time to begin the service.

 

8 hours ago, mikepilk said:

Yes it is. The pic I posted is from Cousins showing 7 in stock

Can you believe its also the same as the one I needed for my 7S26 0840. Gosh, you guys are good. Ta

[JackH]

This site has helped me so much so I am happy to be able to help a bit. You will need a good press for the Seiko crystal. The crystal needs to seat into the gasket and case evenly. When I did my Seiko 5, I did 1/4 turns of the case while pressing down as it seated.  Depending on the case construction, there is a rounded or beveled side to the crystal gasket that needs to face the right way. These crystals are not an easy thing to do. Buy a few gaskets if you can. 

[mikepilk]

2 hours ago, JackH said:

This site has helped me so much so I am happy to be able to help a bit. You will need a good press for the Seiko crystal. The crystal needs to seat into the gasket and case evenly. When I did my Seiko 5, I did 1/4 turns of the case while pressing down as it seated.  Depending on the case construction, there is a rounded or beveled side to the crystal gasket that needs to face the right way. These crystals are not an easy thing to do. Buy a few gaskets if you can. 

That's a good point about getting the gasket bevel the right way round. Apart from that, they should push in easily. I have had no problems using my cheapo press like this one to fit them.

[rossjackson01]

17 hours ago, mikepilk said:

That's a good point about getting the gasket bevel the right way round. Apart from that, they should push in easily. I have had no problems using my cheapo press like this one to fit them.

Got one. Same colour. 

19 hours ago, JackH said:

This site has helped me so much so I am happy to be able to help a bit. You will need a good press for the Seiko crystal. The crystal needs to seat into the gasket and case evenly. When I did my Seiko 5, I did 1/4 turns of the case while pressing down as it seated.  Depending on the case construction, there is a rounded or beveled side to the crystal gasket that needs to face the right way. These crystals are not an easy thing to do. Buy a few gaskets if you can. 

Yes, I do the 1/4 system. I did see from JohnR725's .pdf which way to put the crystal. See, I am reading folks. Getting there.

 

 

Update.

Completed service. All works well. Only problem, the balance spring is out of the regulator pin. Next job using the microscope. Tried it in just for the heck. -890s. Amplitude 197 degrees.   BE 0.2 degrees. Not bad for a watch that would not even wind. 

Another tooth ache (age thing). Repair will need to wait now.

Edited February 29, 2024 by rossjackson01

[Neverenoughwatches]

45 minutes ago, rossjackson01 said:

Got one. Same colour. 

Yes, I do the 1/4 system. I did see from JohnR725's .pdf which way to put the crystal. See, I am reading folks. Getting there.

 

 

Update.

Completed service. All works well. Only problem, the balance spring is out of the regulator pin. Next job using the microscope. Tried it in just for the heck. -890s. Amplitude 197 degrees.   BE 0.2 degrees. Not bad for a watch that would not even wind. 

Another tooth ache (age thing). Repair will need to wait now.

As you know Ross the regulator pins are to regulate the timing of the watch , hence the name regulator or timing pins ( behave never, they don't do they ? that's a shocker ). Lol ok so the pins hold the spring's active point, thats the point where the spring is active, in effect it's active length . So when the spring is not between the timing pins, the spring's active point now lays where it's connected at the stud, so the spring's active length is it's entire length, which is almost always too long to keep accurate time. Since when a spring is longer it beats more slowly than when it is shorter it stands to reason that the watch runs more slowly and has a  -- unacurate  time keeping. If you knew all that and i think you did , then tell me to shut up and go away .   I was actually bored and just wanted someone to converse with, so just humour me, it doesn't take a whole lot of your time so dont worry, just write # yes Richard okayyyy whatever #.

[rossjackson01]

2 hours ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

As you know Ross the regulator pins are to regulate the timing of the watch , hence the name regulator or timing pins ( behave never, they don't do they ? that's a shocker ). Lol ok so the pins hold the spring's active point, thats the point where the spring is active, in effect it's active length . So when the spring is not between the timing pins, the spring's active point now lays where it's connected at the stud, so the spring's active length is it's entire length, which is almost always too long to keep accurate time. Since when a spring is longer it beats more slowly than when it is shorter it stands to reason that the watch runs more slowly and has a  -- unacurate  time keeping. If you knew all that and i think you did , then tell me to shut up and go away .   I was actually bored and just wanted someone to converse with, so just humour me, it doesn't take a whole lot of your time so dont worry, just write # yes Richard okayyyy whatever #.

Ta. Actually understood what you said. 

Under the microscope I saw that the pin was not only bent, but cracked just at the base. Lifted up the spring and the pin fell off. Bummer!

Found a balance from a spare movement.  Timing? There is not enough space on the pin to move it close to the stud to get less that 300. Stumped yet again. Good innit?  Amplitude ranges from 185 to 215 dependent to where the pin is pushed to allow the Seconds per day to get as low as 100.

BE pushed to end is 9.9 degrees.  +120 S/d. amplitude 224.

Stud moved to read 0.2 Seconds.  +980 S/d. Amplitude 185. Bah!

All I want to do is to get one watch running.

 

Note. Spoke to dentist. Can get appointment in 7 weeks. OK till then????? Ring back if it get worse?????

Edited February 29, 2024 by rossjackson01

[mikepilk]

1 hour ago, rossjackson01 said:

Found a balance from a spare movement. 

Was it from exactly the same type of movement ?

Is the hairspring flat, and the coils evenly spaced - could coils be touching ?

Pics?

[rossjackson01]

28 minutes ago, mikepilk said:

Was it from exactly the same type of movement ?

Is the hairspring flat, and the coils evenly spaced - could coils be touching ?

Pics?

Yes. 7009. Tried 3. All the same. Pin at stud still reads 400+. 

[mikepilk]

6 minutes ago, rossjackson01 said:

Yes. 7009. Tried 3. All the same. Pin at stud still reads 400+. 

There's something clearly wrong !

Can you post some close-up pics of the balance, from the top and side ? 

[RichardHarris123]

Is the hairspring centered in the regulator pins?

[Neverenoughwatches]

1 hour ago, rossjackson01 said:

Ta. Actually understood what you said. 

Under the microscope I saw that the pin was not only bent, but cracked just at the base. Lifted up the spring and the pin fell off. Bummer!

Found a balance from a spare movement.  Timing? There is not enough space on the pin to move it close to the stud to get less that 300. Stumped yet again. Good innit?  Amplitude ranges from 185 to 215 dependent to where the pin is pushed to allow the Seconds per day to get as low as 100.

BE pushed to end is 9.9 degrees.  +120 S/d. amplitude 224.

Stud moved to read 0.2 Seconds.  +980 S/d. Amplitude 185. Bah!

All I want to do is to get one watch running.

 

Note. Spoke to dentist. Can get appointment in 7 weeks. OK till then????? Ring back if it get worse?????

Most often a fast running balance would point to the spring's active length being too short . As you know this usually occurs when there is foul play afoot . Something fouling the hairspring taking it's active length away from where it' is supposed to be, or maybe magnetism in the coils which can have the same effect. If the pins could be removed from the crime scene then that eliminates one culprit ( ok not a culprit but a possible element of the problem ) . We can't really do that but we could open them up so the hairspring doesn't touch them at all which is the next best thing. I'm guessing you wont want to do that after losing a pin on the last one. You can establish that there is possible accurate regulation along the terminal curve by seeing how the timimg is at the stud.

[RichardHarris123]

Watch this.  https://youtu.be/ExfFlYFAffg?si=mywwUtungZnBRqOP

 

[rossjackson01]

1 hour ago, RichardHarris123 said:

Watch this.  https://youtu.be/ExfFlYFAffg?si=mywwUtungZnBRqOP

 

Many thanks. None of the balances that I have from my 7009's are Etachron Regulator.

Edited February 29, 2024 by rossjackson01