Seiko Starfish Kinetic 5M23-7A30 Band Removal

[Doobs]

Hi all,

I've been looking for a Seiko Starfish Kinetic 5M23-7A30 for some time and finally was able to snag this off of the 'bay:

The challenge has been finding one with a large enough bracelet to fit my tree trunk arms.  Many of these watches were sold in Japan where evidently they have twig arms...

While this one wasn't quite the 8" in circumference that was advertised, it does fit me.  Yay!

The capacitor was deader than dead upon arrival, no surprise.  Luckily I happened to have a new replacement cap and that went in and it works beautifully. Getting the back unscrewed was a challenge. It took everything I had to loosen it.

With the back off, I noticed the watch was extremely dirty.  So I took the movement out and put the case, strap and back in my vibratory cleaner.

When I got the parts out, I noticed some crevice corrosion on the stainless back which was prolly why it was so difficult to unscrew.  Unfortunately this is the result of the dissimilar metals of the case as the shell is titanium and the back is stainless. I soaked the back in mineral oil, and lightly scraped all the corrosion off and it's fine.

Putting everything back together, I noticed that the strap "lugs/links" on the band have been bent outward a bit (I could have done this when unscrewing the back), so I want to take the strap off and close up the links. 

Trouble is I can't get the pins holding the strap on to move. I have a feeling they are corroded inside like the back was.

I've dripped some mineral oil in the pins and am letting it sit.  I really don't want to use anything more aggressive.

Any thoughts for ideas on getting the posts out?

Thanks

Chris

Edited December 27, 2023 by Doobs
fat fingers

[HectorLooi]

10 hours ago, Doobs said:

So I took the movement out and put the case, strap and back in my vibratory cleaner.

When you say "vibratory cleaner", do you mean the type that is filled with ceramic chips and vibrate for half a day?

[Doobs]

No, just a water bath.

Jewelry cleaner if you will but with a longer timer.

Edited December 28, 2023 by Doobs

[Doobs]

Well,

It's becoming clear that the pins will be unusable once this is done. I've already split the end of one of them.

I've taken the movement out of the case and am thinking about soaking the entire case to help free up the pins enough to remove them.

What's the best thing to soak the case/band in?

I've got mineral oil and mineral spirits.  Either of those do, or is something else better?

Thanks

chris

[RichardHarris123]

Do you mean the spring bars that hold the bracelet to the watch case or the pins in the bracelet itself?  

[Doobs]

The spring bars holding the bracelet to the watch.

Edited December 28, 2023 by Doobs

[RichardHarris123]

If it's rust holding it in place then penetrating oil or rust remover.  Have you got a spring bar tool? 

[Doobs]

Yep. Although I've abused it trying to get these things out.  Might need to source another.

Any suggestions?

[RichardHarris123]

I have one of these, replacement tips are only a couple of quid. 

[Jon]

1 hour ago, Doobs said:

Yep. Although I've abused it trying to get these things out.  Might need to source another.

The spring bar removal tools you can buy are crap., even Bergeon ones. They will bend. They don't make them hard enough, as they want you to buy more. You need to make your own with tool steel, hardened and tempered, so it won't bend and will get the spring bar out after soaking in penetrating oil. Some spring bars can only be released from one side, so keep that in mind. Homemade tools are infinitely better than anything you can buy.

If you are still having this problem, DM me and I'll send you a homemade tempered and hardened spring bar tool you can mount in a screwdriver fitting.

Edited December 28, 2023 by Jon

[RichardHarris123]

40 minutes ago, Jon said:

The spring bar removal tools you can buy are crap., even Bergeon ones. They will bend

I don't doubt you @Jon but my spring bar tool has had some stick and is still going strong. 

[Doobs]

Sigh,

No joy with the various oils.

So, I took the brute force method.

The links holding the band to the spring bars were already distorted, so I opened them up more so I could get them off the spring bars.

Once done, I cut through the bars with a pair of wire cutters and got them out. They were full of crud, so I doubt there would have been any other way of removing them.

Back in the vibrating cleaner for a thorough wash to get all the crude out of the remaining pieces.

I definitely need to buy some new fat spring bars and spring bar tool.

This project has been had on tools.  I killed the spring bar tool and a pair of wire cutters. 

Thanks for all the help.

I'll post pictures once it's all back together.

chris

Edited December 30, 2023 by Doobs

[CYCLOPS]

I use a screw driver when the ears of the spring bar get frozen, glad you got it apart though, your cleaner is called an ultra-sonic cleaner, put the band in it with some Parson's ammonia and that will clean it up....

[Doobs]

Thanks

Screw drivers did nothing other than tear the outer skin of the spring pins, and bugger up my screwdrivers.....

It's all clean and drying.

I've got some fat spring bars coming, although I think the ones I ordered are 2 long.

This site: EmmyWatch indicates the pins are 18mm, but I measured 19mm so that's what I ordered.

We shall see.

Happy New Years!

[CYCLOPS]

great to hear, what works for some, not for others and not all instances...Happy New Year

[Doobs]

Geeze,

That was a pain.

I ordered the fat spring pins on January 1st from Uncle Quality Watch Straps which is in southern California.

They shipped them fairly quickly and then they went for a 10+ day USPS driven trip around Virginia. 

The pins arrived yesterday, some 15 days after being put in the mail..

Anywho, everything got reassembled, which included straightening the links I had to open to cut the original fat pins out and voila! here it is:

Thanks for the moral support!

 

[HectorLooi]

If you look closely at spring bar types and the holes in the lugs of watch cases, you will come to realize that you need the right type of spring bar for the type of hole.

For blind end holes, like that of your Seiko, a double flanged spring bar is needed. Don't ever use a single shoulder or double shoulder type because once the pins go into the holes, it very difficult or in the case of the single shoulder type, impossible to get it out.

Single shoulder types are meant for the adjustable section of bracelets, where the pins protrude out from the holes and can be pushed in to release it.

Double shoulder types are for watch lugs with through-and-through holes, where again, a tool can be inserted to push the pin out.

It could be possible that a novice watchmaker disassembled the bracelet for cleaning and mixed up the spring bars during assembly. 

If you come across a single shoulder spring bar used in blind hole lugs, the only way to remove it is to cut it. I have come across a few and I used my dental highspeed drill with a tungsten carbide bur to cut it. But now that I've retired, that would be a difficult task.  

Looks like I've to setup my compressor and highspeed drills in my workshop just in case. 

[Doobs]

Thanks,

What I got from  Uncle were indeed the double flange versions.

It's funny as I've been looking for a Starfish for about 6 months and within a couple of days 3 appeared on the 'bay.

Oh well.

 

[CYCLOPS]

spring bars come in lots of sizes and types, a double flange and the correct diameter will work, too small diameter will make the band ends loose and not fit tight to case....