I'm going to be setting up a decent little workshop here at home.

[Michael1962]

My grandaughter that just got married has a musical rotating porcelain bear in a clown suit that had seen better days. It plays a short part of 'Send in the Clowns'.

To wind it, it should have been lifted up and the plastic base that attached to the winding arbor of the music box turned to wind it up and then ireplace it on its base to rotate while it played.

What had been done is people had pushed down on the bear while it was sitting on a bedside table etc to wind it. The result of that is the base centre that attached to the winding arbor had completely broken out of the base and the cover of the mainspring barrel on the music box had completely broken from the pressure of winding. All the bits were there so I took it apart as much as I could as it is riveted together so cleaning was going to be difficult. I put all the parts of the music box into the ultrasonic cleaner which has done a great job of cleaning it. I was able ro remove the mainspring which was quite set. I spent some time running the spring over a piece of round in my vice. I was able to increase the diameter of the spring and finally got some of the coils to come away from others. Allow had to fiddle around with the centre coil as it was not grabbing the arbor very well. Lubricated the mainspring and wound it back in by hand. Then worked out a way to clamp the broken part of the cover to the main part and used some 5 minute Araldite to glue the cover as well as the plastic base. Got that done before I went into hospital so the part stayed clamped for about 3 days before I took the clamp off.

I should have taken more photos, but I want to get it done and sent back to Sydney before Bec & Jarryd's baby grows up.

I have to make a new wooden cover that the music box is screwed to which is in turn glued to the porcelain.

Hopefully get the base cut and drilled tomorrow and get it all back together. The click for the mainspring is a molded plastic setup on the arbor underneath the mainspring in its barrel. Nothing I could do with it after the damage sustained from the incorrect winding. It still works, but I will be telling Bec that if it fails again, it'll be unrepairable.

I'll take some phots of it all tomorrow. Ok. It's not a clock, but principles are the same.

Hey, I'm working my way up to a clock. It'll be my grandmothers Hettich first as that has been in bits for years now. A bit embarrassing really.

[Michael1962]

Here you go. 

This is the epoxy repair. Fingers crossed. 

[Neverenoughwatches]

16 hours ago, Michael1962 said:

To wind it, it should have been lifted up and the plastic base that attached to the winding arbor of the music box turned to wind it up and then ireplace it on its base to rotate while it played.

I have almost the same repair to do myself one day Michael. I used to play with a musical ballerina that belongs to my mum, when I was a very small boy. It plays the "Love story" theme tune and also winds up in the same way as the one you are working one. The plastic base has broken I think from age fatigue, brittleness from the sun's heat while sitting on a windowsill and incorrect winding over time. How about reinforcing the base and center hole with fibreglass car body filler ? Its pretty tough stuff and will make for a repair that lasts for decades, would love to see it all back together and working when you have finished it. Little pass down inherited keepsakes like this can be treasured long after we are gone.   

[Michael1962]

I have some body filler in the garage. I will look at that for reinforcing on the underside of the base. 
Great idea!

[RichardHarris123]

Have you seen these, should be easy to make a home made version. 

[AndyGSi]

Given more time you could look at resin casting a new base.

[caseback]

Or 3D print one? 

[Neverenoughwatches]

1 hour ago, RichardHarris123 said:

Have you seen these, should be easy to make a home made version. 

What we looking at Rich ?

[RichardHarris123]

The squiggly wires are melted into the plastic across the split, giving it strength.  Google plastic welding. 

[Michael1962]

Well the epoxy on the music box spring casing turned into a fail. Didn't adhere. I am going to look at using an old soldering iron and attempt to plastic weld the two parts to each other. I have some old plastic that I will try it on first.

Other than that, I have spent the last week moving everything out of my workshop to polyurethane coat all the walls and the ceiling to keep dust down a bit. The walls were just stained cedar and dust stuck to them like nothing. Hopefully, the poly will make everything a bit easieer to keep clean. Starting to move everything back in today after cleaning the floor after all the work.

One day, I'll actually fix someth8ing.

Edited December 22, 2024 by Michael1962

[Michael1962]

Well everything is back in with a concerted effort to keep the working bench clear to start getting things done. That is after I rejoin the wires from some Christmas lights that my wife cut through when she was trimming a plant. I'd like to say that she said "Oh, bother!" when she did it, but she didn't.

The quartz movement that I replaced the impulse gear pivot on is working away quite happily so that's good. I know OH doesn't like quartz movements, but hey ho.  

The little Unimat lathe blew the RCD the other day. I reset it and turned the motor on again. RCD went again. Reset and the next time I turned the motor on I got an electrical arcing sound from the motor. So that will have to come apart now so that I can see if there is anything obvious. Actually @oldhippy, how hot did the motor on yours get? I have noticed that sometimes mine can get quite hot. I'm using the timer on my phone to work for 8 minutes and rest for 2 minutes. Sometimes I let it rest for longer due to how hot it can get.

I'll start investigating a replacement motor. I have seen on YT that several people have replaced theirs as well as the drive pulleys to a toothed belt & pulleys with what looks like good results. At least I don;t have to try and work it out myself. Hard work is already done.

[Michael1962]

Well, we're cooking over here! Friend asked me to look at their son's little quartz. Wasn't running. Once I worked out that I had to remove a plate in the back to be able to get the crown out, I then had to work out how to get the movement out as it was a front loader. Removed the movement locating ring and then gently pushed on the back of the movement and everything came out.  All good so far. I had also noticed that the hour hand did not line up with an hour indicator when the minute hand was at twelve. So corrected that. Put the movement back in the case, put the crystal and its holder back in the case. Put the plate in the back of the movement to hold the crown in, 3 screws back in, new battery in and nothing.  Took the plate back out again and noticed that the end furthest away from the battery was bent up. Close look showed that it had bent up where there was some angled parts which contacted the CB. Corrected that. Put the plate in and started with the screw that held that end first. Plate tucked in against the CB all nice and snug. There is quite a few scratches on the plate so I am guessing that someone before me has put the screws in and then just pushed on that end to get it to connect properly. Second screw in the middle to secure the crown and stem, then the last screw near the battery. Battery in and another success.

Movement locating ring in, snapped the back on and tada.  

Done with the cheap loupe that I bought with the lenses set up to give me 10x. There is another lens which I can swing over my left eye which gives me 20x at about 30mm away. Haven't told the boss yet, but if I had to inspect anything smaller than what I was doing, my loupe ain't gonna cut it. Anyone have a free stereo microscope that they don't want or need anymore? I have no idea how I am going to broach that subject with 'she who would be queen'. 

How do you measure movements? Do you measure from the crown edge to the other side or the longest distance which in this case would be 90 degreeses to the crown. It was one of those tiny quartz movements. Probably about 12mm across from the crown edge to the opposite edge, so if I'm not wrong about 5.3 ligne. Compared to three watches that Liz has which were handed down from her mother, you know those teeny, tiny watches. Two are manual, the other is a quartz, this movement would be regarded as quite large. 

I also have discovered that I need to back off on coffee. When I first started on the watch, I was shaking like a leaf. Cup of coffee sorted out the shakes, but definitely can't be considered to be a solution. I'll also be asking my doctor whether any of the 6 prescription tablets that I am on cause the shakes.

Note to everyone: Don't have a stroke. They suck.

[AndyGSi]

28 minutes ago, Michael1962 said:

How do you measure movements? Do you measure from the crown edge to the other side or the longest distance which in this case would be 90 degreeses to the crown. It was one of those tiny quartz movements.

If it's not a round movement they you need both measurements as example below.

[Neverenoughwatches]

26 minutes ago, Michael1962 said:

Well, we're cooking over here! Friend asked me to look at their son's little quartz. Wasn't running. Once I worked out that I had to remove a plate in the back to be able to get the crown out, I then had to work out how to get the movement out as it was a front loader. Removed the movement locating ring and then gently pushed on the back of the movement and everything came out.  All good so far. I had also noticed that the hour hand did not line up with an hour indicator when the minute hand was at twelve. So corrected that. Put the movement back in the case, put the crystal and its holder back in the case. Put the plate in the back of the movement to hold the crown in, 3 screws back in, new battery in and nothing.  Took the plate back out again and noticed that the end furthest away from the battery was bent up. Close look showed that it had bent up where there was some angled parts which contacted the CB. Corrected that. Put the plate in and started with the screw that held that end first. Plate tucked in against the CB all nice and snug. There is quite a few scratches on the plate so I am guessing that someone before me has put the screws in and then just pushed on that end to get it to connect properly. Second screw in the middle to secure the crown and stem, then the last screw near the battery. Battery in and another success.

Movement locating ring in, snapped the back on and tada.  

Done with the cheap loupe that I bought with the lenses set up to give me 10x. There is another lens which I can swing over my left eye which gives me 20x at about 30mm away. Haven't told the boss yet, but if I had to inspect anything smaller than what I was doing, my loupe ain't gonna cut it. Anyone have a free stereo microscope that they don't want or need anymore? I have no idea how I am going to broach that subject with 'she who would be queen'. 

How do you measure movements? Do you measure from the crown edge to the other side or the longest distance which in this case would be 90 degreeses to the crown. It was one of those tiny quartz movements. Probably about 12mm across from the crown edge to the opposite edge, so if I'm not wrong about 5.3 ligne. Compared to three watches that Liz has which were handed down from her mother, you know those teeny, tiny watches. Two are manual, the other is a quartz, this movement would be regarded as quite large. 

I also have discovered that I need to back off on coffee. When I first started on the watch, I was shaking like a leaf. Cup of coffee sorted out the shakes, but definitely can't be considered to be a solution. I'll also be asking my doctor whether any of the 6 prescription tablets that I am on cause the shakes.

Note to everyone: Don't have a stroke. They suck.

Well done Michael , its a good feeling when a watch kicks into action especially after a bit of problem solving. I'm  not sure about how and what medication would cause the shakes. But my mum on blood thinners, vasodilators and heart arrhythmia medication now...her hands are still rock steady. I do know what can affect hand stability at that level of muscular motor control...and that is blood sugar levels. Blood sugar is the root to practically all the evil within us. Something that we should all learn to take control of...is our insulin...the cause of so many illnesses. 

[RichardHarris123]

1 hour ago, Michael1962 said:

Note to everyone: Don't have a stroke. They suck.

Depending on what you're stroking.  Hehe. 

[Michael1962]

OK. I need some assistance if there are any electrically minded people on here.

The diode that sits in the switching circuit of my lathe motor (EMCO Unimat 3) has a broken leg and is no longer serviceable. I can't seem to find a replacement online. As I am not that electrically savvy (I can spell electricity) I am unsure what I need to specify to find an equivalent. The printing on it is simply DBC (Direct Bonded Copper?) with a simple diode symbol. Underneath that DS 1,8 (1.8V? Forward voltage?) Underneath that 10A (pretty self explanatory) and then at 90 degrees to all of the printing it has 120D on it. On top of that I need to find some carbon brushes for the motor. One does not appear to be very worn, while the other one is significantly shorter. The number on the brushes is L43F7. I measured them to be 5mm x 6.5mm x ~15mm length. I can't find them either. I can find a siilar brush, but they are 5mm x 8mm x 15mm. How hard would it be to reduce the brush from 8mm to 6.5 mm by hand?

[Neverenoughwatches]

38 minutes ago, Michael1962 said:

OK. I need some assistance if there are any electrically minded people on here.

The diode that sits in the switching circuit of my lathe motor (EMCO Unimat 3) has a broken leg and is no longer serviceable. I can't seem to find a replacement online. As I am not that electrically savvy (I can spell electricity) I am unsure what I need to specify to find an equivalent. The printing on it is simply DBC (Direct Bonded Copper?) with a simple diode symbol. Underneath that DS 1,8 (1.8V? Forward voltage?) Underneath that 10A (pretty self explanatory) and then at 90 degrees to all of the printing it has 120D on it. On top of that I need to find some carbon brushes for the motor. One does not appear to be very worn, while the other one is significantly shorter. The number on the brushes is L43F7. I measured them to be 5mm x 6.5mm x ~15mm length. I can't find them either. I can find a siilar brush, but they are 5mm x 8mm x 15mm. How hard would it be to reduce the brush from 8mm to 6.5 mm by hand?

Pictures Michael, i can't see any reason why you wouldn't be able to trim some other brushes down, I've thought about it many times. In the meantime are you able to swap them over as one is significantly more worn than the other.

[AndyGSi]

58 minutes ago, Michael1962 said:

OK. I need some assistance if there are any electrically minded people on here.

The diode that sits in the switching circuit of my lathe motor (EMCO Unimat 3) has a broken leg and is no longer serviceable. I can't seem to find a replacement online. As I am not that electrically savvy (I can spell electricity) I am unsure what I need to specify to find an equivalent. The printing on it is simply DBC (Direct Bonded Copper?) with a simple diode symbol. Underneath that DS 1,8 (1.8V? Forward voltage?) Underneath that 10A (pretty self explanatory) and then at 90 degrees to all of the printing it has 120D on it. On top of that I need to find some carbon brushes for the motor. One does not appear to be very worn, while the other one is significantly shorter. The number on the brushes is L43F7. I measured them to be 5mm x 6.5mm x ~15mm length. I can't find them either. I can find a siilar brush, but they are 5mm x 8mm x 15mm. How hard would it be to reduce the brush from 8mm to 6.5 mm by hand?

Is this anything like you're looking for?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/163685619275

[watchweasol]

Hi Michael.  You can rub down the brushes to size on a bit of emery cloth but first measure the good or for size and just be careful not to over do it.    Congrats on the watch fix.  Well done .

[AndyGSi]

7 hours ago, Michael1962 said:

I measured them to be 5mm x 6.5mm x ~15mm length.

Are you sure the size is correct?

Edit

It would appear your dimensions are correct.

Edited December 27, 2024 by AndyGSi

[Michael1962]

11 hours ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

Pictures Michael, i can't see any reason why you wouldn't be able to trim some other brushes down, I've thought about it many times. In the meantime are you able to swap them over as one is significantly more worn than the other.

Here you go.

With the difference in the brush length, I expect it may be that the number 1 setting on the switch was used far more than the number 2 speed position. Which would favour one brush as the current supplying brush compared to the other. The though of swapping the brushes has crossed my mind as well.

Here is a photo from when I first opened the motor up. All the carbon dust is gone now. Commutator has been cleaned up. Carbon dust was everywhere. No wonder it kept tripping the RCD in the house.

11 hours ago, AndyGSi said:

Is this anything like you're looking for?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/163685619275

Very close, but different enough that I am just not sure.

6 hours ago, watchweasol said:

Hi Michael.  You can rub down the brushes to size on a bit of emery cloth but first measure the good or for size and just be careful not to over do it.    Congrats on the watch fix.  Well done .

Darn watch is back on the bench as it keeps stopping in pretty much the same spot and it looks like the hour hand tube may be a bit loose. Going to be a chalenge to fix, but I have some ideas.

4 hours ago, AndyGSi said:

Are you sure the size is correct?

Edit

It would appear your dimensions are correct.

Is the Emco parts page a live page on the internet? With the age of the lathe, I assumed that that the likelihood of that would be small. Part 13 is the diode that I am after. as well.

Edited December 27, 2024 by Michael1962

[AndyGSi]

25 minutes ago, Michael1962 said:

Very close, but different enough that I am just not sure.

It's just a Diode so anything with the same rating or higher would be OK.

25 minutes ago, Michael1962 said:

Is the Emco parts page a live page on the internet? With the age of the lathe, I assumed that that the likelihood of that would be small. Part 13 is the diode that I am after. as well.

https://www.emcoshop.at/304-emcoersatzzubehoerteiledrehmaschinenemcounimat3ersatzteile?page=1

Edit

I think 1600V is a little high but see what you can get.

 

Edited December 27, 2024 by AndyGSi

[Michael1962]

Hi Andy. So any of the bottom 4 on the page you have posted? I am matching the DS 1.8 figure from the diode that I have.

[Neverenoughwatches]

47 minutes ago, Michael1962 said:

Here you go.

With the difference in the brush length, I expect it may be that the number 1 setting on the switch was used far more than the number 2 speed position. Which would favour one brush as the current supplying brush compared to the other. The though of swapping the brushes has crossed my mind as well.

Here is a photo from when I first opened the motor up. All the carbon dust is gone now. Commutator has been cleaned up. Carbon dust was everywhere. No wonder it kept tripping the RCD in the house.

Very close, but different enough that I am just not sure.

Darn watch is back on the bench as it keeps stopping in pretty much the same spot and it looks like the hour hand tube may be a bit loose. Going to be a chalenge to fix, but I have some ideas.

Is the Emco parts page a live page on the internet? With the age of the lathe, I assumed that that the likelihood of that would be small. Part 13 is the diode that I am after. as well.

Still looks enough on the brushes, maybe stretchout the springs so the brushes have better contact with the commutator. Commutator looks like it has seen better days though, did it clean up ok ?

Edited December 27, 2024 by Neverenoughwatches

[AndyGSi]

36 minutes ago, Michael1962 said:

Hi Andy. So any of the bottom 4 on the page you have posted? I am matching the DS 1.8 figure from the diode that I have.

Yours appears to be marked as the DS 1,8-16A which is why I said the 1600V was a little high.

The key part is the 7A Rating and I'd be looking for something around 600V.

Here's a little bit about your brush wear.

https://cr4.globalspec.com/thread/3527/Diode-speed-control-and-uneven-brush-wear

And as @Neverenoughwatches said there's still plenty of life left in those brushes so just swap them round.

Edited December 27, 2024 by AndyGSi