I'm going to be setting up a decent little workshop here at home.

[Michael1962]

Edited November 27, 2023 by Michael1962

[Neverenoughwatches]

1 hour ago, watchweasol said:

Hi Michael. Will the dog make room for you.  Hope it’s not a cold night, wrap up warm.   By the way how much is a divorce in Aussie ?.   

I've given that question some thought and roughly worked out its probably cheaper than repairing watches. 

1 hour ago, Michael1962 said:

Just enrolled in Mark's course.

Was running out of time for the discount.

I haven't told Liz.

I'm in the poo.

Sleeping outside tonight, I imagine.

Or if anyone has a spare room that I could rent?

Mike, what she doesn't know wont hurt you.

[Michael1962]

Joint accounts. Liz will know. Not right now, but she will. 
ps. I’m a Michael please.

[rossjackson01]

Michael.

Best choice and investment you could have made. Been there, worn the T shirt.

You've taken your brides advice.  She has guided you well.

[Waggy]

On 11/25/2023 at 4:22 PM, oldhippy said:

Make sure when it comes to you sitting at your bench you have it at the height where it is most comfortable for you

I have an electric desk that I can increase the height with a button, price wasn't that much more than a standard desk and I can stand or sit at the desk and my back pain is now a thing of the past - always better to prevent than cure. Maybe something to consider if you are looking at equipment.

[Neverenoughwatches]

7 hours ago, Michael1962 said:

Joint accounts. Liz will know. Not right now, but she will. 
ps. I’m a Michael please.

Haha Then you're pretty much screwed Michael,  i also have a Liz but look on the bright side you might not have a joint account for much longer .

7 hours ago, rossjackson01 said:

Michael.

Best choice and investment you could have made. Been there, worn the T shirt.

You've taken your brides advice.  She has guided you well.

Haha some blokes dont have a choice Ross, i think you might be confusing advice and guidance with order and instruction

Edited November 28, 2023 by Neverenoughwatches

[Michael1962]

So I get home from work,

” What did you spend $$$s on to do with some watch thing?”

” I meant to tell you hon, that is for a watch course. I got a discount otherwise it would have been more.”

” Is that it then?”

” Yep. Oh, I might have to buy a movement that they use in the course yet.”

 Didn’t tell her about a timegrapher, case press, crystal lift, rodico, etc, etc.

 Have a bunch of yoghurt containers that have lids that will make very nice dust covers. So I’m going to draw up little movement trays and 3D Print some off.

 So long story short, crisis averted. Phew.

[Waggy]

28 minutes ago, Michael1962 said:

Have a bunch of yoghurt containers that have lids that will make very nice dust covers

A cheap Ikea glass works well as a lid also:

Link HERE

There are lots of versions to print up, The green one above was just the first I came across, you could adapt the model to whatever size glasses you have kicking around? I have printed a few of the ones below, just the parts tray and lid:

Link HERE

Edited November 29, 2023 by Waggy

[Neverenoughwatches]

3 hours ago, Michael1962 said:

So I get home from work,

” What did you spend $$$s on to do with some watch thing?”

” I meant to tell you hon, that is for a watch course. I got a discount otherwise it would have been more.”

” Is that it then?”

” Yep. Oh, I might have to buy a movement that they use in the course yet.”

 Didn’t tell her about a timegrapher, case press, crystal lift, rodico, etc, etc.

 Have a bunch of yoghurt containers that have lids that will make very nice dust covers. So I’m going to draw up little movement trays and 3D Print some off.

 So long story short, crisis averted. Phew.

Haha Michael, you think that crisis is averted, its just on hold mate. Liz is making plans dont you worry, you have a storm coming fella, take shelter . Ps. Nice try with the discount thing, never ever try to sell your reasons to a woman, they see right through it like a plain glass window.

Edited November 29, 2023 by Neverenoughwatches

[Michael1962]

I'll just keep circling the drain........

[Neverenoughwatches]

52 minutes ago, Michael1962 said:

I'll just keep circling the drain........

Haha looking all forlorn in your little man cave, the old sympathy tactic eh, good luck with that one .  Nah Lizzys ain't so bad , mine is ok, i know when I've overstepped the mark and have to start reeling it in. Its when you find she's locked the door to keep in there that the problems start.

4 hours ago, Waggy said:

A cheap Ikea glass works well as a lid also:

Link HERE

There are lots of versions to print up, The green one above was just the first I came across, you could adapt the model to whatever size glasses you have kicking around? I have printed a few of the ones below, just the parts tray and lid:

Link HERE

Why waggy why, now i have to buy a 3D printer. You guys have me spending all my hard earned dosh .

[Michael1962]

Well I have just received the following Timelab tools all the way from the USA.

The 9 set of screwdrivers with spare baleds in each size.

A 4 way movement holder.

A set of 1mm hand lifting tools.

Some hand setting tools.

Some springbar tools.

A squeezy ball for removing screw on casebacks.

A 70mm silicon cushion.

First impressions?

The screwdrivers are really nice compared to anything I have seen. Makes me realise how much rubbish is peddled as being quality. However, I got rather scared by the smallest one. The 0.8mm. I can't imagine a screw that small. I just can't.

Movement holder. This impressed me. Can handle four different sizes on each of the faces. Isn't sloppy as it could easily have been.

The hand lifting tools look really nice. Very fine. Again, another tool that makes me admire watchmakers more by the moment.

Three different size springbar removal tools. Another tool that you don't think you may ever need until you have seen one. I recall as a teenager, you know the one, know all and know nothing, using a 'precision' screwdriver to remove springbars. Each of them has what looks like a punch on the other end. I suppose it would be more for pushing a spring bar out of a bracelet or strap?

Squeezy ball. Is a squeezy ball. Truth will be in the use of.

The cushion is really nice. Has a nice weighty feel to it. The working surface is really smooth. No wrinkles. The base is a really nice non-slip material.

I'll take some photos tomorrow. I know these aren't Chinese tools, so they don't belong on that other topic, but based on what I know from tools during my apprenticeship etc, I would have no hesitation in recommending any of these.

If Bergeon etc are another step up, they must be some seriously good tools.

I am worried about how deep and mazey (is that even a word?) this rabbit hole goes.

 

 

Edited December 1, 2023 by Michael1962

[Marc]

16 minutes ago, Michael1962 said:

I am worried about how deep and mazey (is that even a word?) this rabbit hole goes.

I'm pretty sure that nobody has actually found the bottom of it yet so if you're just starting out then I'm afraid you've got a long way to fall.

[rossjackson01]

Well. Like me, you've begun.

Information from a beginner

What ever you do, don't begin on a watch you or your bride own and treasure. Go to a boot fair and get some old watches for a few pound. They might or might not work. Doesn't matter. Exactly as Mark says. Look and practice, then practice, practice and then, practice some more. Do each stage systematically. Open then close, do it again a few times. Next stage, depending on the watch. Take it out of the case. Put it back in, take it out, put it back. Show your bride what you can do. Get encouragement. 

What ever you do, don't take a watch fully apart. You will not remember where anything goes, you will be heavy handed and break a pivot. Oh yes you will. Been there, worn that T shirt. I still have 3 watches that I need parts for, and cannot be obtained. If only I knew what I knew now, or be a gentle as I am now. 2 were heirlooms so to speak. So upset with myself. Could I do them now? Oh yes. 

Hope this helps.

 

[Neverenoughwatches]

1 hour ago, rossjackson01 said:

Well. Like me, you've begun.

Information from a beginner

What ever you do, don't begin on a watch you or your bride own and treasure. Go to a boot fair and get some old watches for a few pound. They might or might not work. Doesn't matter. Exactly as Mark says. Look and practice, then practice, practice and then, practice some more. Do each stage systematically. Open then close, do it again a few times. Next stage, depending on the watch. Take it out of the case. Put it back in, take it out, put it back. Show your bride what you can do. Get encouragement. 

What ever you do, don't take a watch fully apart. You will not remember where anything goes, you will be heavy handed and break a pivot. Oh yes you will. Been there, worn that T shirt. I still have 3 watches that I need parts for, and cannot be obtained. If only I knew what I knew now, or be a gentle as I am now. 2 were heirlooms so to speak. So upset with myself. Could I do them now? Oh yes. 

Hope this helps.

 

Good advice Ross, the repetitive thing can be extended further still. I would remove a part and reinstall it a few times to reinforce my short term memory retention, there comes a time when you want to let go of relying on walkthrough photos 

[gpraceman]

What really helped me with my first few watches was to setup a camera and record the disassembly as well as taking lots of photos.  It can be easy to forget which part goes where or the order the parts need to be reinstalled.

[rossjackson01]

4 hours ago, rossjackson01 said:

Well. Like me, you've begun.

Information from a beginner

What ever you do, don't begin on a watch you or your bride own and treasure. Go to a boot fair and get some old watches for a few pound. They might or might not work. Doesn't matter. Exactly as Mark says. Look and practice, then practice, practice and then, practice some more. Do each stage systematically. Open then close, do it again a few times. Next stage, depending on the watch. Take it out of the case. Put it back in, take it out, put it back. Show your bride what you can do. Get encouragement. 

What ever you do, don't take a watch fully apart. You will not remember where anything goes, you will be heavy handed and break a pivot. Oh yes you will. Been there, worn that T shirt. I still have 3 watches that I need parts for, and cannot be obtained. If only I knew what I knew now, or be a gentle as I am now. 2 were heirlooms so to speak. So upset with myself. Could I do them now? Oh yes. 

Hope this helps.

 

Addition to my above comment. I followed a number of videos on doing a full service of a particular watch. 'Only started last week', load of bull.  Yes I was able to follow, disassembled and even assembled. What did I achieve? I had damaged balances, springs, broken pivots on escape wheels and centre wheels. Lost 3 jewel springs. Scratched plates. Put wrong screws in wrong places. Re-sized hands inadvertently by forcing them off. And more. Many things I would never do now. Rush in, and you need members of this forum without a doubt. Thank goodness for them.

Edited December 1, 2023 by rossjackson01

[linux]

On 11/29/2023 at 1:59 AM, Michael1962 said:

So I get home from work,

” What did you spend $$$s on to do with some watch thing?”

” I meant to tell you hon, that is for a watch course. I got a discount otherwise it would have been more.”

” Is that it then?”

” Yep. Oh, I might have to buy a movement that they use in the course yet.”

 Didn’t tell her about a timegrapher, case press, crystal lift, rodico, etc, etc.

 Have a bunch of yoghurt containers that have lids that will make very nice dust covers. So I’m going to draw up little movement trays and 3D Print some off.

 So long story short, crisis averted. Phew.

Don't tell her about the staking set, jeweling set, cleaning machine, left and right winding sets, and finally, the lathe.  

So on the subject of benches, specifically bench height, as a beginner I've come to realize that in a perfect (and cost-free) world I'd have two benches.  A normal bench where you look down on your work, or microscope and a so-called "high-bench".

I have a very sturdy bench that is 41" high and my stool is 28" and I look down.  The only way I can see laterally into the movement is either have a wooden box to swap onto the work surface to raise the work or an adjustable stool to lower myself.  I've been thinking about the stool and have a couple candidates picked out that adjust from about 21" to 28"

I'm wondering how may people here have taken that approach and how it's working out for you?

[Neverenoughwatches]

19 hours ago, linux said:

Don't tell her about the staking set, jeweling set, cleaning machine, left and right winding sets, and finally, the lathe.  

So on the subject of benches, specifically bench height, as a beginner I've come to realize that in a perfect (and cost-free) world I'd have two benches.  A normal bench where you look down on your work, or microscope and a so-called "high-bench".

I have a very sturdy bench that is 41" high and my stool is 28" and I look down.  The only way I can see laterally into the movement is either have a wooden box to swap onto the work surface to raise the work or an adjustable stool to lower myself.  I've been thinking about the stool and have a couple candidates picked out that adjust from about 21" to 28"

I'm wondering how may people here have taken that approach and how it's working out for you?

Your tool list is quite short Michael, some big investments but still a short list. That storm is coming, you know that right ? . So bench height, its about what feels comfortable and you'll soon figure that out when you start working. An adjustable chair will certainly make life easy. One mistake i think that is often made with a bench is having a draw just above your legs. Depending on what microscope you get and angle you have it set at there's a possibility you wont get the height you need to see through the eyepieces comfortably. Distance from thighs to eyepiece is very relevant, if you cant get that right because a draw is in the way, you end up compromising your seating position.

[Michael1962]

Already have a little Unimat lathe. It’ll be ok for clocks. Not sure about its tolerances for watch work though. However, I am not doing watch work yet that requires machining. 

Edited December 6, 2023 by Michael1962

[Michael1962]

@Waggy is it possible to set the diameter of the parts tray so that it fits the things I want to use as covers?

If it is, I'm not sure how to get there. Also, does the same guy do movement holders which sit in the centre circle of his movement holder?

If not, Ill draw my own ones up and then I'll make movement holders to suit movements as I need them.

I'll keep the sizes on a spreadsheet so that I don't needlessly print movement holders when I don't need to.

The tray won't be hard. The movement holder may take some tweaking as to whether they have the split in them so that they stretch just slightly to hold the movement or whether I just make them so that the movement sits in them.

[Michael1962]

Well I put the spa on Gumtree (selling service) to try and sell it as it only needs a recirc pump to get it going.

However, it weighs circa 250kg, so there's 4 fairly strong guys, and I would have to remove the sliding door in the room completely to be able to get it out, as well as clearing out a multitude of potted plants and the Alfresco outdoor setting to be able to get it out. Then move nearly everything in the back of the garage to be able to push it through to the front of the house.

I would also need to hire furniture skates to be able to shift it around as carrying it is out of the question. Then someone would need a trailer to get it to their place as you won't get it on the back of a ute.

So, the only answer is, out with the reciprocating saw and cut it all up into manageable pieces. Crying shame as it is in really good nick.

I was only asking $1,500 and only got two bites, but it would only take something to go wrong with removing the sliding door etc that everything I make on the sale could go out the door on repairs etc.

It would have been nice to be able to turn it into tools etc, but que sera sera. I don't know about the rest of the world, but there just seems to be very little interest from people wanting to buy things secondhand.

 

[Neverenoughwatches]

11 minutes ago, Michael1962 said:

Well I put the spa on Gumtree (selling service) to try and sell it as it only needs a recirc pump to get it going.

However, it weighs circa 250kg, so there's 4 fairly strong guys, and I would have to remove the sliding door in the room completely to be able to get it out, as well as clearing out a multitude of potted plants and the Alfresco outdoor setting to be able to get it out. Then move nearly everything in the back of the garage to be able to push it through to the front of the house.

I would also need to hire furniture skates to be able to shift it around as carrying it is out of the question. Then someone would need a trailer to get it to their place as you won't get it on the back of a ute.

So, the only answer is, out with the reciprocating saw and cut it all up into manageable pieces. Crying shame as it is in really good nick.

I was only asking $1,500 and only got two bites, but it would only take something to go wrong with removing the sliding door etc that everything I make on the sale could go out the door on repairs etc.

It would have been nice to be able to turn it into tools etc, but que sera sera. I don't know about the rest of the world, but there just seems to be very little interest from people wanting to buy things secondhand.

 

Its a big item Michael and a lot that could go wrong with the process of getting it to its new location. I once helped install one of these units into a conservatory that i had built. It was big and bloody heavy and took six of us to get it in safely. If you have sliding doors and you need to remove the whole frame then that may or may not go well. But i would advise getting a professional in if you have little knowledge on the installation of them. The glazing of the doors could well be 6mm laminated glass which again will be heavy very heavy if the glazing units are big. The glass would also need to be set up and packed correctly to open the doors properly more so if they are unframed and the sliders are upvc. Seems a shame but if no one is biting and that may be due to having no warranty i guess the only takers might be someone that installs them for a living and knows how to repair. If its fibreglass just be careful, i sometimes have to cut fibreglass baths out and they are nasty to work with . Thick gloves are definitely recommended,  not fun picking out fibreglass spells two days later that have started to go septic. Good luck with it all matey.

[rossjackson01]

On 12/1/2023 at 12:23 PM, Michael1962 said:

Well I have just received the following Timelab tools all the way from the USA.

The 9 set of screwdrivers with spare baleds in each size.

A 4 way movement holder.

A set of 1mm hand lifting tools.

Some hand setting tools.

Some springbar tools.

A squeezy ball for removing screw on casebacks.

A 70mm silicon cushion.

First impressions?

The screwdrivers are really nice compared to anything I have seen. Makes me realise how much rubbish is peddled as being quality. However, I got rather scared by the smallest one. The 0.8mm. I can't imagine a screw that small. I just can't.

Movement holder. This impressed me. Can handle four different sizes on each of the faces. Isn't sloppy as it could easily have been.

The hand lifting tools look really nice. Very fine. Again, another tool that makes me admire watchmakers more by the moment.

Three different size springbar removal tools. Another tool that you don't think you may ever need until you have seen one. I recall as a teenager, you know the one, know all and know nothing, using a 'precision' screwdriver to remove springbars. Each of them has what looks like a punch on the other end. I suppose it would be more for pushing a spring bar out of a bracelet or strap?

Squeezy ball. Is a squeezy ball. Truth will be in the use of.

The cushion is really nice. Has a nice weighty feel to it. The working surface is really smooth. No wrinkles. The base is a really nice non-slip material.

I'll take some photos tomorrow. I know these aren't Chinese tools, so they don't belong on that other topic, but based on what I know from tools during my apprenticeship etc, I would have no hesitation in recommending any of these.

If Bergeon etc are another step up, they must be some seriously good tools.

I am worried about how deep and mazey (is that even a word?) this rabbit hole goes.

 

 

Photographs, please?

[Michael1962]

I forgot that I said I would do that. Will take some tomorrow and post them up post haste.