Help identifying and sourcing pendulum for old German wall clock

[RLang386]

This actually came to me in two parts via an antique store owner who bought out a horologist's shop when he passed. He sold me a box of movements containing this movement, and an empty clock case, which happened to be the one (the mounts on the clock and the case mate together extremely precisely.)

The movement is in fantastic shape and will run, but lacks a pendulum and weight and the case is clearly very very old and fragile but with a little wood glue will be right as rain. There are no markings anywhere except for the serial number and some very lightly scratched numbers that seem to be a date of service from a clockmaker. I'm tentatively assuming it's German or Polish (Silesian), based on some similarities to some Gustaf Becker and early Junghans clocks I've seen. I have the finials that go to the bottom of the case by the way, they just need to be re-glued. 

I have seen any number of clocks vaguely like this, up to an including one that also has the second hand complication (if you can call it a complication, the second hand is pressed directly onto the axle of the escape wheel), some of them with striking trains but most without. None of them seemed to have identifying marks on the outside either, and I was not in a position to disassemble them and see. 

As I'm looking to sell this once I have bought parts and cleaned and lubricated it, I was wondering if anyone here could tell me maybe even just a country and speculative date of origin? My closest guess is turn of the century Germany but that's circumstantial. 

I would also appreciate very greatly any help in finding a source for a new pendulum. As you can see in the first image, there is a small rod attached to the pendulum crutch that would pass through a brass bushing of sorts placed in a slot in the pendulum shaft. The top of the pendulum would be suspended by conventional suspension spring built into the movement mount in the case. Thus the pendulum itself would only be attached to the movement via the brass rod riding in that slot. I have seen several other clocks with this arrangement, enough to be quite familiar with what the pendulum should look like, but I can't seem to find any pendulums that even look right on, say, timesavers. The closest I've seen are some of the pendulums for so-called fusee clocks, but none of them appear long enough (I would say this pendulum is probably going to be a little more than a foot and a half!) 

Is that hour hand missing its "tail" by the way?

Any help is greatly appreciated!

Edited March 22, 2023 by RLang386
Clarity

[RichardHarris123]

No idea but @oldhippyshould be able to assist. 

[oldhippy]

It’s German. It is a Vienna regulator timepiece and it will be from around the 1880’s could be a little later. The hands are of the Vienna style and are original. Getting the right pendulum will be difficult and could be expensive.  You also have brass knob missing which I have ringed in red that can be made in a small lath and shouldn’t be a problem, you might even pick one up on ebay. I have found two pendulums on ebay but you will have to measure things your side to see if one will fit. I would get in touch with clock material suppliers and talk to them for advice. Not having the original pendulum will knock the value down but if it is all cleaned up and the case given a good clean and polish a value of around £350 to £500 I would think.  

 

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/185823957702?hash=item2b43f892c6:g:YCAAAOSwgEhkGoPo&amdata=enc%3AAQAHAAAA8Eq%2FBASOsZWMdZiyt8N3AmFxPpZOrYKp719ovA5bwUFGme7L%2BC3RGnaRS%2FOKnHFl%2BWuMddepk49gKVDUJelLBfU2FFKk00cORVuGa8X9L7fNh1UW%2BryH99DK2ixSqvbF8w1TI3lBCFYHcfyzdMlHb7xtW8w5sQE%2Bxz4vxTiljWSOtUdqCqeA9UhIJ%2FC9Bovj9dJmVyP8yng9nE%2FnHEKmZ9U37mli2k8dGabJe3LTtlr9952Ru4nv%2B55QqTfhxxX0HyggHGLTvpuftyzr8PPSfUbbE%2FN7ielN1GjmeCjLJ1M%2FW7uUmVeRKsleLHwJUVzOKA%3D%3D|tkp%3ABk9SR4LApKfhYQ

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/184559358011?hash=item2af898503b:g:UkkAAOSwPktfxGW2&amdata=enc%3AAQAHAAAA0EheGl4%2F3ffUTUWrNf7lxEICTwo9Er3uaawkJjLXdYK5Qj2%2BEra4nTYf3TsnMXoaClby1Fo5cfR75dH25UV1VciPEr0Msz8WLqesfLLtwopG8M%2BxPTKSzNB%2FUyIjdg4OO1e%2BfNoKrjf0piDMLpu8o4zIhw5Z1taXWpnAxryrk4hQFsplLfgmpAM%2Fez3Olkf%2Fb2JdeIAdpTk0Fqg3hDZ4T2gMX1ZlmVog%2F9e2tHr6yf8RR1AtRF%2BCEApgmL0sMQKVeVPMaoOjPwL9bHlUmFpSTYI%3D|tkp%3ABk9SR4bApKfhYQ

[RLang386]

Thank you @oldhippy, this is very helpful! I may have to be a little patient and watch eBay to see if I see a better deal. I didn't look close at those listings--they certainly have the correct kind of hooks and slots but I didn't see a length listed for either one. May be something I have to contact the sellers directly to find out. 

Believe it or not, I'm only about $50 in this clock, so if I have to pay about $80 I'll only be right at $130 in it; that could still be somewhat profitable depending how much I can get for it. Unfortunately the flea market where I sell clocks and other antiques takes 30% commission in lieu of charging me rent -- sometimes that works out in my favor and sometimes it works out in their favor. 

Tell me, do you think I need to be very particular about what size weight I buy? Or is there some leeway? I know it can affect the speed of the clock a little, but will it be within the range of the pendulum adjustment to compensate? Obviously it needs a brass can weight, as every other weight-driven clock of this general style that I've ever seen has had brass cans. 

 

[oldhippy]

Vienna regulator clock weight about 3 pound or less, it can depend on the weight of the pendulum. I would test it first, put some stones in a bag and hang it on to test it.  If you look at those pendulums one gives the length in one of the other photos, the other gives the measurements further down the page.    

[RLang386]

29 minutes ago, oldhippy said:

Vienna regulator clock weight about 3 pound or less, it can depend on the weight of the pendulum. I would test it first, put some stones in a bag and hang it on to test it.  If you look at those pendulums one gives the length in one of the other photos, the other gives the measurements further down the page.    

Yeah, I was at work when I saw your response, didn't have a lot of time to look at the eBay listings. 

The bag of rocks method seems perfectly doable, I'll keep that in mind. 

The most similar clock I have seen at an antique store seems to be driven by two weights of more like 5 lb each, but that one has a striking train, and I am aware that that increases drag on the main gear train as well. (I have a Gustaf Becker that used to sometimes stop on the hour or half hour.) This one, as you can see, has no striking train and runs off of one weight. 

I wonder if it would reduce the value very much if I got a simple little key instead of a winder. I've seen a similar clock that was provided with too wide of a winder and ended up getting the enamel chipped off-- and then the winder stripped out too! 

[oldhippy]

With any weight driven clock it is always best to use the proper crank keys it makes it so easy winding the clock. Make sure it is a good fit onto the square of the winding arbor a bad fitting key will round the shoulders. You will need to measure the arbor square and makes sure it fits right on and not just part way.

This is the type of key for Vienna regulator clocks.

https://www.etsy.com/uk/listing/273163754/brass-crank-winding-key-for-antique?gpla=1&gao=1&&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=shopping_uk_en_gb_c-craft_supplies_and_tools-other&utm_custom1=_k_Cj0KCQjw8e-gBhD0ARIsAJiDsaWhAlKKIsEFjRo2-ozuMNPFdhRXEnm-NuOtpMy93EBJoyc135mB_YgaAhIgEALw_wcB_k_&utm_content=go_6479444538_74547372381_380917264451_pla-295462056907_c__273163754engb_472264907&utm_custom2=6479444538&gclid=Cj0KCQjw8e-gBhD0ARIsAJiDsaWhAlKKIsEFjRo2-ozuMNPFdhRXEnm-NuOtpMy93EBJoyc135mB_YgaAhIgEALw_wcB