What am I looking at?

[w30bob]

Hi Guys,

  I picked up this watch for cheap to hot-rod it for myself, figuring I'd replace the dial with something more vibrant, then found another one in better shape but with the same dial staining problem and want to understand what's going on with these guys?  Without knowing much about watches (I'm a newbie and in learning mode) it looks to be saturated with something.......maybe someone over oiled it and it seeped thru to the dial??  Doesn't appear uniform enough to be UV exposure.....but I don't know.  But I figured someone on here has seen this phenomenon before and can explain what it is.  I'd also love to know if there's any way to reverse this and restore the dial (economically).  I expect not, but it never hurts to ask.  Looking forward to your comments.  

thanks,

bob

[watchweasol]

Hi welcome to the forum. Stained dials can be caused by a multitude of things, the most common is water ingress/condensation best to open it up and have a look at the keyless work for any signs of rust. There is of course the natural ageing of the dial paint due to reaction with sunlight or chemical reaction over time with the base metal and the dial paint. As long as the movement is intact and serviceable you will be able to mod it no problem.     Cheers

[RichardHarris123]

It's called Patnia and can be caused by many things.  Some people like it, some want to re-dail. Expensive watches lose a lot of money if the dial is restored or replaced. 

[grsnovi]

1 hour ago, RichardHarris123 said:

It's called Patnia and can be caused by many things.

But it's actually spelled "patina"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patina

[RichardHarris123]

23 minutes ago, grsnovi said:

But it's actually spelled "patina"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patina

Oops, typo.  Hehe. 

[w30bob]

Hi Guys,

  Thanks.  Yeah, I understand patina, as I've restored many many things over the years.  Technically patina is a natural aging.......what I have here is really 'damage' rather than patina, but I realize I'm splitting hairs.  And I get that the watch community considers anything that has happened to a watch dial since it was first made to be 'patina', as silly as that might be.  I'm just glad the last guy who sold me a nice expensive watch for cheap considered it 'broken' because an index fell off.......and not 'patina' or he would have wanted big bucks!!!  So 'patina' it is........cuz as they say.........when in Rome............  

  I popped the back cover off and I do see some signs of oxidation.....will pull the movement out in a few minutes here and see what I can see.  It's a ESA 9158, the same in my Benrus Citations, so common and cheap to replace.  The whole watch seems to be a rebadged Benrus, which makes sense as Sears didn't make watches.  Good fun.  I'll let you know what I find after I pop the guts out.  

Thanks again,

;O)

[grsnovi]

4 hours ago, w30bob said:

what I have here is really 'damage' rather than patina

I'd agree. It looks as if there has been some "bleed" of whatever adhesive was used to adhere the markers into the surrounding dial coating. It's hard to tell based on the posted photo. To me these guys who feel you have to leave the dial alone after servicing are simply not skilled in dial restoration. Not that it's easy.

[w30bob]

Interestingly enough, I picked up another example of this exact same watch........but this one from 'across the pond', and not stateside.......and it has the same identical 'damage' or 'patina', take your pic.  It actually has a little more than the one above, and it looks like (since the dial was originally white, or lighter than the damaged areas) that the bleed thru or moisture or oil staining is everywhere EXCEPT right around the indices.  Now maybe whatever glue they used for the indices "spread out" a bit around each one, preventing those areas from getting damaged.........not sure.  But I thought the indices were glued from the back......but could be wrong.  And in looking at it again, the discoloration is very uniform on the whole dial, except right around the indices........to the point I could see where some WOULD call it 'patina' on the newer one.  If it didn't affect the legibility of actually reading the dial........I'd probably leave it be.  And I might, as I put more thought into it.  I don't like messing with 'history'.  But now I'm really curious what caused this discoloration of the dial.  

Below is a pic of the both watches together, the new one on the left.  The darker discoloration you see on both from 4 to 7 o'clock isn't real, it's from the flash.  Meaning it's real, but you don't see it with the naked eye.  To me the dial on the left looks more uniform in terms of staining, and just looks dirty.  To be fair I cleaned the crystal on the watch on the right and not the one on the left, so some of the haziness will disappear when I pop out the movement and clean the underside of the crystal on the new guy on the left. 

I did some more checking around and I'm pretty sure this watch was made for Sears by Hamilton, as I've found the identical dial on a number of Hamiltons from the same period, with the word Hamilton replacing Tradition, obviously.  And although I found a lot of Hamiltons with this same dial........none were discolored like these guys.  To be continued.  Maybe Hamilton eliminated a dial sealing step to meet Sears' price point.  Ahhh.....what good fun. 

;O)