Jump to content

Slava 2414

HectorLooi
 Share

Recommended Posts

HectorLooi Distinguished Member

HectorLooi

Posted
Posted

No good deed goes unpunished. 

Some of you might remember that I recently helped a new member, @BigT, with a problem with a click spring from a 2414 by taking a photo of my newly acquired Slava watch.

s-l400-1.jpg.0814832c0a3828fa76f0642c28679b9f.jpg

Well, I finally got down to working on it today. I put it on my timegrapher and it was over 400s fast per day. Even when I moved the regulator all the way to the end of the hairspring.

I took off the balance and got a shock when I turned it over. There was epoxy all over the roller table.

20220821_174628.thumb.jpg.5fb9656b829054e98d9d2dad2861480c.jpg

I took off the hairspring and got a bigger shock. The hairspring appears to be glued to a crude collet. I know Russian watches are rough but I never remember any looking this bad.

20220821_180008.thumb.jpg.b810f7bcb0a3cdbb89afb925b1e76823.jpg

The hairspring is totally off centred. It's probably not original. I know that they are fighting a war back there ( the watch was bought from Ukraine ), but this is a real bummer.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Gramham WRT Addict

Gramham

Posted
Posted (edited)
10 hours ago, HectorLooi said:

No good deed goes unpunished. 

Some of you might remember that I recently helped a new member, @BigT, with a problem with a click spring from a 2414 by taking a photo of my newly acquired Slava watch.

s-l400-1.jpg.0814832c0a3828fa76f0642c28679b9f.jpg

Well, I finally got down to working on it today. I put it on my timegrapher and it was over 400s fast per day. Even when I moved the regulator all the way to the end of the hairspring.

I took off the balance and got a shock when I turned it over. There was epoxy all over the roller table.

20220821_174628.thumb.jpg.5fb9656b829054e98d9d2dad2861480c.jpg

I took off the hairspring and got a bigger shock. The hairspring appears to be glued to a crude collet. I know Russian watches are rough but I never remember any looking this bad.

20220821_180008.thumb.jpg.b810f7bcb0a3cdbb89afb925b1e76823.jpg

The hairspring is totally off centred. It's probably not original. I know that they are fighting a war back there ( the watch was bought from Ukraine ), but this is a real bummer.


"appears to be glued to a crude collet"....I guess that's what explains the epoxy. 😞

What are you going to do about that?  The hairspring seems over-strong (probably too thick) and was obviously bodged into place.  If the spring is too strong, you should be getting a huge supplementary arc with the pallet fork smashing its body into the Banking Pins and the Guard Pin, Horns (Overbank Arms) also smashing into their respective safety fixtures at each oscillation.  Definitely not good.

You didn't mention the amplitude in your original post...what was it?

BTW - I am getting into the 555 clock, but very slowly as I really don't feel like I know what I'm doing in there...

g.
----

Edited by Gramham
duplication removed
Link to comment
Share on other sites
HectorLooi Distinguished Member

HectorLooi

Posted
  • Author
Posted

The amplitude was about 200 only. A strong hairspring would give the opposite result of what you described. A strong mainspring would be the cause of overbanking.

The hairspring was probably harvested from another Russian watch with an overcoil design. There is evidence of 2 bends in the z-axis where an overcoil bend might be. 

I'll try straightening and centering the hairspring. But I'll probably source for a new balance complete. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Gramham WRT Addict

Gramham

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, HectorLooi said:

The amplitude was about 200 only. A strong hairspring would give the opposite result of what you described. A strong mainspring would be the cause of overbanking.

The hairspring was probably harvested from another Russian watch with an overcoil design. There is evidence of 2 bends in the z-axis where an overcoil bend might be. 

I'll try straightening and centering the hairspring. But I'll probably source for a new balance complete. 

Hello @HectorLooi,

Thanks for the clarification and setting me straight with respect to the hairspring situation.  Yes, I was relying on my reading of mainsprings when writing that particular post...very observant of you!  Wow, you really know your stuff!

Lucky me, and thanks for the correction. 🙂

OK, so I guess that a "strong" hairspring would result in lower amplitude?

At 200° the amplitude of your SLAVA is quite low, no? 

Shouldn't it be around 270° as stated by Watters (1999) on page 39?

"The amount that the balance turns is limited by the force of the impulse and the strength of the balance spring, but after the balance has been turned through something like 270°, the balance spring drives the balance back again and eventually the impulse pin strikes the opposite side of the notch; this unlocks the escape wheel to give the impulse again, and, once more the (opposite) side of the notch overtakes the impulse pin and gives impulse in the opposite direction".

So in your opinion is the hairspring too strong for this particular balance, or is something else contributing to the low amplitude like energy losses through the train or perhaps a weak mainspring?

Forgive me if I seem too inquisitive...I am just trying out my new knowledge to see if I really understand things, and it's pretty obvious that I still have a lot to learn and a long way to go until I have a working conceptual model of how timepieces function firmly embedded in my mind!

g.
----


REFERENCES
Watters, Mick (1999) MECHANICAL and QUARTZ WATCH REPAIR,  London: The Crowood Press (ISBN: 1-86126-233-7)
https://bit.ly/3wnuYrT
 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
HectorLooi Distinguished Member

HectorLooi

Posted
  • Author
Posted
3 hours ago, Gramham said:

So in your opinion is the hairspring too strong for this particular balance, or is something else contributing to the low amplitude like energy losses through the train or perhaps a weak mainspring?

It's to tell at the moment as the hairspring is not properly centred and the spring is all bunched up on one side.

I find it really strange that Cousins sells new hairspring collets but not hairsprings. I would have thought hairsprings would require replacements more than its collets.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Neverenoughwatches Distinguished Member

Neverenoughwatches

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, HectorLooi said:

I suspect that this was previously an overcoil spring as the remnants of 2 bends are visible.

Do you think ? , and that someone would try to reuse an overcoil from something else in place of a flat h/s? . Somebody was very optimistic there Hector. But this IS watch repair and anything is possible . How about a section for worst bodge finds lol. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Gramham WRT Addict

Gramham

Posted
Posted
9 hours ago, HectorLooi said:

20220822_235855.thumb.jpg.93dbae25c60df92e9f2938df43531f79.jpg

This is the side view of the hairspring. I suspect that this was previously an overcoil spring as the remnants of 2 bends are visible.

I'm not sure if the 2 bends can be  straightened out. I'll probably start looking for a donor hairspring. 

Does this one interest you?

I can pick it up for you and mail it over.

image.thumb.png.5d623c014f4d8ea8fb07df05c17e29c7.png
 

image.thumb.png.df3b20409871abac750f28a42297f300.png

 

g.

----
 

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites
HectorLooi Distinguished Member

HectorLooi

Posted
  • Author
Posted
6 hours ago, Gramham said:

Does this one interest you?

I can pick it up for you and mail it over.

image.thumb.png.5d623c014f4d8ea8fb07df05c17e29c7.png
 

image.thumb.png.df3b20409871abac750f28a42297f300.png

 

g.

----
 

Thank you so much, Gramham. That's so generous of you but I have already bought a NOS one from my regular Russian watch parts supplier. He's from Ukraine and I hope everything is well with him.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
 Share
Go to topic listing


  • Recently Browsing

    • No registered users viewing this page.

  • Topics

  • Posts

    • Rustinbox
      Omega Split stem issue (will not go back in)

      By Rustinbox · Posted

      Bringing this old thread back to life, as I have similar problem. I did follow this advice, but while inserting a male stem (crown side) and just pushed it to the female part, and the fork (female side) of the stem has broken. What is the right way? Push the stem part so it widens the gap and fits in? Why it was then receiving side got broken? Old metal? It is a vintage watch from late 60s.    or the outer part should be inserted somehow from the side (slipping to the gap), but I don’t have space there for this manipulation. The watch is Orient Fineness monocoque case.   thank you!  
    • Neverenoughwatches
      Winding pinion making

      By Neverenoughwatches · Posted

      Thats insane Nev that you cut those tiny pinion teeth with a cutter you designed and made. 
    • Neverenoughwatches
      AS 554 from 1930

      By Neverenoughwatches · Posted

      I certainly do Razz. Ive just started work on this AS554, interestingly enough it had a paper dial made from a postcard , look at the brand name on the dial, very curious. 
    • Kkramme
      Watch of Today

      By Kkramme · Posted

      [SBGA405] Grand Seiko “Godzilla” Spring DriveI always enjoy coming back at the end of the week to my first Spring Drive watch which is a combined automatic mechanical watch and a high quality quartz — a Spring Drive.Impressive accuracy (10 seconds per month) and wears remarkably comfortable at 44.5 mm in diameter and 95 gm.Love the power reserve indicator, and the colour of the dial amd the watch band.One of my “perfect” watches!!😍
    • Neverenoughwatches
      Generic screws for unknown movements

      By Neverenoughwatches · Posted

      Yep, so we got a 10 1/2  ligne movement, thats the starting point now these bad boys books should hopefully get us across the finishing line . Next we need a good clear picture of that rocking bar, the setting lever and the setting lever spring. I've already got an idea what it might be.  
×
×
  • Create New...