Omega 625 plastic movement spacer ring

[valleyguy]

I've just got an omega de ville ladies watch with a 625 movement that i'm going to have ago at restoring, the movement isn't working and the black round spacer ring was missing when i got it, i've been looking online for a replacement with no luck, does anyone know where i can get a replacement or a generic one that i can make fit, the movement is 7 3/4 ligne.

Cousins sell generic spacer rings but looking at the photos online i don't think they will work, this is a screen shot from a video online of the spacer ring on an omega 625 movement, any ideas what i could use to make one.  Thanks VG

 

[mikepilk]

The movement 625 is from the 70s, so I'd be surprised if it was originally a plastic ring.  All the 620/625 I've seen have had metal rings, like this one I have (waiting for a case!)

Are you sure the case is genuine Omega ?

[valleyguy]

I'm sure it's a genuine omega case and case back, i've seen photos of the same model number online, i've seen several other ladies omega de villes using the 625 movement with different shaped dials using different black plastic spacers, round, oval and squarish.

Your omega 625 looks to be in a spacer for a gentlemans watch case, i've watched a few of the youtube videos of the 625 movement been serviced, the ladies watches seem to have the plastic spacer and the gents a metal larger one to fill the case out.

The plastic spacers seem hard to get hold of while the movement parts seem readily available, your movement and spacer will make a nice gents watch.

[mikepilk]

20 hours ago, valleyguy said:

I'm sure it's a genuine omega case and case back, i've seen photos of the same model number online, i've seen several other ladies omega de villes using the 625 movement with different shaped dials using different black plastic spacers, round, oval and squarish.

Your omega 625 looks to be in a spacer for a gentlemans watch case, i've watched a few of the youtube videos of the 625 movement been serviced, the ladies watches seem to have the plastic spacer and the gents a metal larger one to fill the case out.

The plastic spacers seem hard to get hold of while the movement parts seem readily available, your movement and spacer will make a nice gents watch.

I didn't realise they used plastic spacers on ladies watches. I don't know where you will find one. Maybe you could make one with 3D printing? 

Trying to find a case for my movement is very difficult - the dial is quite large, 27.5mm. I also have a new case, but can't find a 26.0 mm dial to use with it !

 

[JohnR725]

usually on parts like this it's considered a casing part. In order to find casing parts we need a case number or ideally the serial number of the watch. Then some kind soul might try to look up the number and see what exactly supposed to be in their. The only problem of course is the older the stuff gets the less likely or to find anything or even any references but we can't do anything without a case number and/or serial.

 

[valleyguy]

Hi JohnR725, it's a 511.0508 ladies de ville with a 625 movement.

[mikepilk]

Searching for Omega case parts on Cousins with that number - finds the part number, but they don't have any

[JohnR725]

2 hours ago, mikepilk said:

Omega case parts on Cousins with that number

interesting I thought the movement number was 625 but that's a movement ring for 620 and wonder if it's the same?

I wish I would say a movement ring but I keep coming up with this  ENLARGMENT RING REF 079MA062027 that's the only ring events associate with the case number. Although the problem with the case number is a standard Omega problem of it actually refers to three different cases. A goldplated case stainless steel case and I don't remember the other one. The ring though is only associated with the 625 movement.

[valleyguy]

Thanks, i will look both numbers up to see if they look the same, hopefully they will have a photo of the movement spacer ring.

Edited June 30, 2022 by valleyguy

[JohnR725]

33 minutes ago, valleyguy said:

hopefully they will have a photo of the movement spacer ring.

did you search for your number of online? the movement ring is in the green parts tray towards the bottom. I've seen rings like this before it's flat but it has protruding parts of the case back pushes on the hold the movement in place is not just a flat ring

https://antiwatchman.com/wp/o-5856/

 

 

[mikepilk]

1 hour ago, JohnR725 said:

interesting I thought the movement number was 625 but that's a movement ring for 620 and wonder if it's the same?

According to Ranfft the only difference between 620 and 625 is that 620 is 19800 A/h and 625 is 21600 A/h

[valleyguy]

Thanks, i've had a good look at the movement spacer on the link to antiwatchman, this seems to be the part, as you state it as raised plastic lips that push down on the two little case clamps when the case back is pushed into the watch case securing the movement in place.

I cannot find this part for sale at any online watch parts retailers, i've phoned a few retailers here in the UK with no luck, i will try to send omega an email asking if they have the part.

Cousins have a bag of 100 different movement spacer rings, i may get lucky and find one that could be adapted to work.

I've also been thinking that i could make one from brass,  instead of the plastic pushing down on the case clamps, the clamps could slide into two groves then screwed down securing it in place.

Thank you for the help.

[JohnR725]

39 minutes ago, valleyguy said:

I cannot find this part for sale at any online watch parts retailers, i've phoned a few retailers here in the UK with no luck, i will try to send omega an email asking if they have the part.

let us know what happens with your phone conversation or communication with Omega.

the problem with the Swiss especially Swatch group is they restrict who can purchase things. Not just restrict who can purchase stuff but even if you have an account you may or may not be a lessee some of the technical documentation people are at various levels and if you're not at the right level you cannot see the documentation you can't purchase.

So I'd be very surprised if you can call up and ask them to send you a movement ring. Then I'll be interested if they tell you what the cost is? People are often times surprised at how expensive Omega parts are even simple plastic rings or crystals can be quite expensive

[valleyguy]

I received a reply email  from Omega, We don't supply individual parts directly, please take your watch to an Omega boutique, authorised retailer or an Omega service centre.

I didn't think i'd even get a reply, but they were fast with that less than two hours.

So what it comes down to is control and limit the parts available to keep the service prices high, even ofrei's website say omega won't supply them with parts.

I will get a bag of spacer rings from cousins to see if i can make one fit.

If they charged me for all the work that needs to be done on the movement, crystal and a new strap i'd need to take out a mortgage, probably be able to buy a new watch, not been able to get parts is not good for hobbiest or independent old school watch repairers.

 

[JohnR725]

5 hours ago, valleyguy said:

I received a reply email  from Omega, We don't supply individual parts directly, please take your watch to an Omega boutique, authorised retailer or an Omega service centre.

it was interesting that they did give your reply lease their truthful. Not only will they not supply you parts but even if you do have a Swatch group account it has to be at the right level or otherwise you can't order the parts either. You look them up that you can't order them

5 hours ago, valleyguy said:

So what it comes down to is control and limit the parts available to keep the service prices high, even ofrei's website say omega won't supply them with parts.

somewhere out there that you see a website it's probably still there set up by a group of angry watchmakers. It listed all of the brands that refused to sell parts to independent watchmakers. Because not a problem unique to this group is a problem for anyone working on a watch. The inability to get spare parts or even technical documentation because everything is behind a firewall and restricted.

Oh and then of course there's my amusements most not all but most of the Swatch group documentation they watermark the PDFs on every single page as to exactly who download which means you don't want to distribute anything you get off your Swatch group account because the whole world will know what came from. which does make me wonder why there so paranoid over documentation. It even looks like the filenames which you could change but they have cryptic numbers after the name of the item which I assume indicates something

versus the old days were like Omega for instance I once bought a DVD off of eBay that at all the files for think 2007 but no watermarks that's only something newer

[valleyguy]

Out of the blue i got an email from cousins about their court case with swatch group regarding the supply of parts, i've attached a copy of the email below, i hope they win their appeal.

 

View this email in your browser

News Update Swatch v Cousins

It has been some time since we updated on our case in the Swiss Courts, but please be assured that we have been as busy as ever fighting for the rights of our customers to have access to the parts they need to conduct their lawful business.

The verdict given by the Bern court is now the subject of an appeal that we lodged at the Swiss Federal Supreme Court, but to explain how extraordinary the Bern decision was it makes sense to give you a quick reminder of the relevant Competition Law.

Competition Law is all about protecting the end consumer from being improperly manipulated by suppliers. Nothing in Competition Law can be decided without considering the effect that an action has on consumers. The offence being committed by those manufacturers that restrict or refuse the supply of spare parts is “Abuse of Market Dominance” and is easy to understand. It requires a definition of a Market to begin with, and evidence to show that their share of that market is 30% or more to establish dominance. There are several types of abuse, but one of the most serious is for a company to cease supply to long standing customers to seize control of downstream markets for themselves.

In the case of watch parts in the British and EU markets, the CEAHR case established that each brand of watch parts is a market by itself because it is not possible to fix one brand of watch with a different brand of parts. It also established that the manufacturers are 100% market dominant because consumers want manufacturers’ parts used in the repair of their watches to maintain the originality of their watches. These two aspects were decided by the European Court of Justice and accepted by the EU Commission. Swatch Group openly admits that it ceased to supply long standing wholesalers worldwide, so it seems obvious that this is a clear “Abuse of Market Dominance”.

In the action that Swatch brought against Cousins in the Bern Court, Swatch claimed that the market definition resulting from the CEAHR proceedings was wrong, and that they were not dominant, therefore their action was not abusive. This claim was rather problematic for them as the treaty in force between the EU and Switzerland requires them to abide by the decision of the European court. In addition, the Swiss regulator, COMCO, had also acknowledged that the EU definitions were correct. If the Bern court agreed that these definitions did apply, it seemed impossible to us that it could reach any verdict other than confirming the Abuse.

It normally takes three to four months after all the evidence and arguments have been submitted for a Swiss Court to deliver its decision. In our case this took sixteen months, and we know that Covid was not a factor in this delay because other cases that concluded after ours received their verdicts long before we did. We have not received any viable explanation for this delay, but what we did get was a verdict that runs contrary to both the basis and the letter of the law.

The Bern court accepted that the market and dominance definitions given by the EU were correct. However, instead of following the law as it is written, and considering what is best for consumers, the court ruled that even monopolists have the right to decide who they do business with, and to decide the route to market for their products. If a manufacturer decided that its distribution structure was outdated, it was justified in changing that regardless of the effect on either the downstream market, or indeed on consumers. On this basis, the court declined to give any consideration to the extensive evidence provided by Cousins on the effect on consumers of a dramatic increase in the price of servicing and repairs, coupled with a drop in the locations where they can have their watches worked on.

The whole point of the law is that monopolists do not have the right to decide who they do business with without being able to show that their choices do not disadvantage consumers. In addition, free and open competition is considered to be best for consumers and is only ever prevented in the most exceptional of circumstances. What the Bern court has done with this decision is go beyond the application of British and EU laws and attempt to subvert and redefine them.

All of this has been pointed out in detail in our appeal to the Swiss Federal Supreme Court, but the nature of the Swiss system leaves them a lot of room to dismiss our appeal on technicalities. The requirement is that Cousins must show the Bern decision to be shockingly contrary to the law, and that the court was frequently arbitrary in the arguments that it used. Unsurprisingly, there is no hard definition as to how many instances of arbitrariness we are required to show, but we believe we have highlighted more than enough.

If the Federal Supreme Court refuses the appeal, then the small matter of the right of watch repairers to openly ply their trade is likely to be the catalyst for a much larger international argument on the rights of foreign powers to interfere with British and EU laws, and as both parties are currently negotiating new trade deals with Switzerland, the watch parts issue could end up having much wider ramifications.

We hope that the result of the appeal will come out in the next few weeks and will keep you updated on progress.

Cousins Material House

7 Galliford Road

Maldon, Essex CM9 4XD

United Kingdom

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[Kalanag]

Each Cousins customer got this mail imho