Plating used on modern movements, specifically Seiko

[gbyleveldt]

Sooo, I have a question. Anyone know what is typically used on plating the brass plates of modern movements? I somehow remember it being mentioned that it's Rhodium, but that sounds expensive for mass produced movements like the 7Sxx and NHxx movements. Nickel plating maybe? I ask because I want to remove it and was hoping it's something I can do chemically instead of mechanically. And because the burning question is why, I'll say it's a surprise 

[jdm]

3 hours ago, gbyleveldt said:

mass produced movements like the 7Sxx and NHxx movements. Nickel plating maybe?

Looks these like mostly nickel but it could be a proprietary mixture. Industrial electroplating can be very sophisticated, and non reproducible at home. 

 

3 hours ago, gbyleveldt said:

I ask because I want to remove it and was hoping it's something I can do chemically instead of mechanically. 

Sure you can try, if you have previous experience it would help a lot I think. I don't have that either but I know that's not something easy or cheap to do. 

[gbyleveldt]

Thank you. I think it’s possible to remove Nickel. Rhodium is another story

[Neverenoughwatches]

5 hours ago, gbyleveldt said:

Sooo, I have a question. Anyone know what is typically used on plating the brass plates of modern movements? I somehow remember it being mentioned that it's Rhodium, but that sounds expensive for mass produced movements like the 7Sxx and NHxx movements. Nickel plating maybe? I ask because I want to remove it and was hoping it's something I can do chemically instead of mechanically. And because the burning question is why, I'll say it's a surprise 

Hiya Gert. Sounds interesting. Plating is something i want to try also. Some of the watches i buy have heavily  worn plating, learning this goes alongside a full restoration.  I do know that chemical deplating is as simple as a reverse process of plating. What might be the hangup with rhodium ?

[gbyleveldt]

33 minutes ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

Hiya Gert. Sounds interesting. Plating is something i want to try also. Some of the watches i buy have heavily  worn plating, learning this goes alongside a full restoration.  I do know that chemical deplating is as simple as a reverse process of plating. What might be the hangup with rhodium ?

Hey Rich,

So if the brass plates are nickel plated, I believe it’s possible with a reverse electroplating process. I’ve nickel plated before as I’ve shown elsewhere so it makes sense that de-plating would be the reverse. I’ll give it a bash, although I’m concerned that there might be pitting of the underlaying brass, which I don’t want. I can also remove mechanically using glass bead blast, but hell I don’t feel like removing all the jewels or getting an uneven finish on the brass underneath.

From what I read, it’s not possible to de-plate Rhodium without ruining the brass layer underneath. I don’t know enough about this stuff but this theme seems to carry through in much what I’ve read so far.

Anyway, I won’t be plating the brass again but etching it. Don’t wanna give the surprise away so I’d rather not say more lol

[grsnovi]

This site says:

Brass should not be used as a base metal under rhodium in fine jewelry. Brass is cheap, and rhodium is precious. Because brass is used for inexpensive jewelry, a rhodium layer must be thin. But a thin layer wears fast. Brass is malleable, and rhodium plating would increase its durability but would not be a wise investment. Rhodium plated brass would need replacing every few months. You would soon end up investing more in maintenance than the jewelry is worth.

This site says:

The only way to remove the rhodium finish is to mechanically polish it off. This is not difficult on a piece where all areas are accessible to polishing tools. However there are some pieces that have areas where all of the rhodium cannot be removed, under stones for instance.

[gbyleveldt]

Thanks Gary, well only thing I can do is try it and see. I also felt it wouldn’t be Rhodium plated. I just wish I can remember where I read that. Anyway, I can’t remember what I had for breakfast but I can remember brain worms like that. Figures…

[grsnovi]

Hi Gert,

Hopefully you'll get it figured out. I was just curious so I did some google poking around. Both of the above links are more specific to jewelry but I would imagine that Rhodium is Rhodium and brass is brass.

Let us know what you end up with.

Gary

[Neverenoughwatches]

2 hours ago, gbyleveldt said:

Hey Rich,

So if the brass plates are nickel plated, I believe it’s possible with a reverse electroplating process. I’ve nickel plated before as I’ve shown elsewhere so it makes sense that de-plating would be the reverse. I’ll give it a bash, although I’m concerned that there might be pitting of the underlaying brass, which I don’t want. I can also remove mechanically using glass bead blast, but hell I don’t feel like removing all the jewels or getting an uneven finish on the brass underneath.

From what I read, it’s not possible to de-plate Rhodium without ruining the brass layer underneath. I don’t know enough about this stuff but this theme seems to carry through in much what I’ve read so far.

Anyway, I won’t be plating the brass again but etching it. Don’t wanna give the surprise away so I’d rather not say more lol

If you've ever watch Jo. Nekkid watchmaker, he sometimes does plating. Once did  a deplate and was just a case of switching the electrodes over which pulled the plating off the watchcase onto a base material. This stuff is a bit experimental anyway. Calculating the subject area is always a guess ( you could try volume displacement) . Its something you will just need to keep an eye on while its doing its thing. Take beer and chocolate with you to stop yourself wandering off . 

Edited June 21, 2022 by Neverenoughwatches

[grsnovi]

1 hour ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

If you've ever watch Jo. Nekkid watchmaker, he sometimes does plating.

So does Stian Lofstad of Vintage Watch Services (another good YouTuber). I believe that he uses a purchased all-in-one plating "kit". Stian is Norwegian but I believe he's in Switzerland. He has an interesting/subtle sense of humor.

[tomh207]

6 hours ago, grsnovi said:

So does Stian Lofstad of Vintage Watch Services (another good YouTuber). I believe that he uses a purchased all-in-one plating "kit". Stian is Norwegian but I believe he's in Switzerland. He has an interesting/subtle sense of humor.

I think Stian is a member here as well, might be worth a dm.

 

Tom