Eterna ‘Military’ watch face crisis…

[Gattaca]

Evening all.

I have on the bench an Eterna ‘military’ style watch.

i have just removed the movement from its case and sadly it seems that the black paint on the face seems to have been  reacting to something and will literally flake away at the slightest touch. 
Anybody have any ideas about trying to ‘fix’ the paint that’s left (some kind of fixing spray?)

I daren’t even touch the dial any further let alone try taking the hands off for fear that the black will just come away.

Looks like someone previous has tried before and has scrapped the paint off..

Any ideas?

[WatchMaker]

Given you probably want to give the movement a clean and service, and given the existing paint damage around the hands, then I'd remove the hands so you can remove the dial.

With black acrylic paint (water based) and a small paint brush you could then try and touch in the worst of the missing paint before using a water based varnish to provide a stabilising and protective layer. I'm talking about a spray can of water based varnish here unless you own an airbrush to do this. And personally I'd opt for a satin finish.

[Neverenoughwatches]

2 hours ago, Gattaca said:

Evening all.

I have on the bench an Eterna ‘military’ style watch.

i have just removed the movement from its case and sadly it seems that the black paint on the face seems to have been  reacting to something and will literally flake away at the slightest touch. 
Anybody have any ideas about trying to ‘fix’ the paint that’s left (some kind of fixing spray?)

I daren’t even touch the dial any further let alone try taking the hands off for fear that the black will just come away.

Looks like someone previous has tried before and has scrapped the paint off..

Any ideas?

What a shame. Carefully place a clear plastic bag, something like a ziplock sandwich bag over the dial before attempting to remove the hands. As is the case with all hands removal. Can we see a picture of the case and case back and movement. Eterna were one of the German military watch brands of ww2, there maybe a  D or D H book ending the serial number if Germam. Also one of the British the dirty dozen with a broad Arrow and serial numbers if we can have a look if you have them . Thank you.

54 minutes ago, WatchMaker said:

Given you probably want to give the movement a clean and service, and given the existing paint damage around the hands, then I'd remove the hands so you can remove the dial.

With black acrylic paint (water based) and a small paint brush you could then try and touch in the worst of the missing paint before using a water based varnish to provide a stabilising and protective layer. I'm talking about a spray can of water based varnish here unless you own an airbrush to do this. And personally I'd opt for a satin finish.

Hi WM. I know you are very knowledgeable with brand history and have helped me in the past. Would you mind if i pick your brains over military watches,  i have a keen interest in them. Especially  the Dirty Dozen, I'm thinking of attempting a collection of them at some point. There is an extensive book about British milary by konrad knirim. Just wondered if you know of this, its quite an expensive book.

[WatchMaker]

Hi @Neverenoughwatches

16 hours ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

I know you are very knowledgeable with brand history and have helped me in the past.

Well that's very kind of you to say but you may be putting me on a pedestal. I only know what I know and wouldn't say I'm an expert on every brand for sure; just some more than others.

And whilst writing I realise I should have qualified my reply to @Gattacain saying that normally painting and spraying a dial would not be an automatic go to option especially if dealing with something valuable. However this was not a particularly expensive item (I've tracked it down to https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Old-ETERNA-2894328-Military-Watch-Manual-Winding-/125313393190 @ EUR75 / £64 / $80) so given how quickly the dial seems to be deteriorating there doesn't seem a lot to lose by trying to prevent it getting worse.

Back to military watches then and I think this is as good an overview article as any in relation to the style of watch we're looking at in this thread: https://www.acollectedman.com/blogs/journal/dirty-dozen-first-wristwatches-specially-commissioned-for-british-army

It talks about the 'dirty dozen' and those 12 manufacturers you mention who were commissioned to make watches for the British Army. However to be truly a military watch it has to have those 'broad arrow' markings and other designations. The watch we're talking about in this thread is therefore not actually one of these. It should be best described as "in the style of a (dirty dozen) military watch" (which Gattaca acknowledges to be fair).

I don't personally have the Konrad Knirim book you mention (here's a good overview for anyone following this thread ... http://www.knirim.de/watchsto.pdf) and for sure I am not a military watch expert. I note the book is 636 pages! However for any collecting it sure makes sense to be as clued up as possible to avoid being ripped off or otherwise know what to go for.

Maybe have a quick search on this forum site for any previous topics but given your interest I'd certainly consider opening a specific topic on Military Watches for advice or insight from other forum members.

[Neverenoughwatches]

3 hours ago, WatchMaker said:

Hi @Neverenoughwatches

Well that's very kind of you to say but you may be putting me on a pedestal. I only know what I know and wouldn't say I'm an expert on every brand for sure; just some more than others.

And whilst writing I realise I should have qualified my reply to @Gattacain saying that normally painting and spraying a dial would not be an automatic go to option especially if dealing with something valuable. However this was not a particularly expensive item (I've tracked it down to https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Old-ETERNA-2894328-Military-Watch-Manual-Winding-/125313393190 @ EUR75 / £64 / $80) so given how quickly the dial seems to be deteriorating there doesn't seem a lot to lose by trying to prevent it getting worse.

Back to military watches then and I think this is as good an overview article as any in relation to the style of watch we're looking at in this thread: https://www.acollectedman.com/blogs/journal/dirty-dozen-first-wristwatches-specially-commissioned-for-british-army

It talks about the 'dirty dozen' and those 12 manufacturers you mention who were commissioned to make watches for the British Army. However to be truly a military watch it has to have those 'broad arrow' markings and other designations. The watch we're talking about in this thread is therefore not actually one of these. It should be best described as "in the style of a (dirty dozen) military watch" (which Gattaca acknowledges to be fair).

I don't personally have the Konrad Knirim book you mention (here's a good overview for anyone following this thread ... http://www.knirim.de/watchsto.pdf) and for sure I am not a military watch expert. I note the book is 636 pages! However for any collecting it sure makes sense to be as clued up as possible to avoid being ripped off or otherwise know what to go for.

Maybe have a quick search on this forum site for any previous topics but given your interest I'd certainly consider opening a specific topic on Military Watches for advice or insight from other forum members.

Thank you watchmaker. I did come across that same artical last Sunday while researching for a Vietnam war watch for a friend. Eventually settled on looking for a Benrus dtu 2ap for him which he really likes the look of. That same artical reinforced my interest in military brands in particular the Dirty Dozen, which i'm now set on treating myself to either a Record or Timor. These looking to be at the bottom end of a collection, so im thinking a good start point. The Knirim book is probably going to be a must as well if i want to learn a lot more. Thank you very much for the link.

[luiazazrambo]

I got an Eterna WWW dirty dozen watch, it actually started my watchmaker carrier (if we can call it like that as it is just a hobby), i found it in the dirt as a metal detectorist and a watchmaker, John Senior restored it for me. You can read the story on mwrforum, unfortunately the links to the mwrforum do not work without registration any longer so cant link it here. We also had an issue with the dial, but a different sort, as the watch was in the soil for probably decades we had crystals grown on the dial (a little water and probably chemicals got inside) but fortunately it was saved.

Unfortunately i do not hold the knowledge what would help you here. I am very interested as what sort of paint is used for dials and hands. 

Just in case you decide to register or if u registered already:

https://www.mwrforum.net/forums/showthread.php?84492-Freshly-dug-part-deux-Eterna-WWW-found-by-metal-detectorist

Edited May 27, 2022 by luiazazrambo

[Neverenoughwatches]

17 minutes ago, luiazazrambo said:

i found it in the dirt as a metal detectorist and a watchmaker, John Senior restored it for me.

What a fantastic story and find . I am jealous haha. I already had John senior's details. From memory i think he is the leading expert on Smiths watches.

[Gattaca]

So, I thought I’d update this feed.

I managed to sensitively restore the face as best I could and I’m really pleased with the result. It’s running really sweetly after a full strip down and service, strong amplitude and losing 4 seconds a day. 
I didn’t know what the movement was so reached out to Eterna with some pictures and they tell me it’s a 1020 movement from 1944.

I attach some pictures of the before (first 3 pictures) and after (last 2 pictures)

I’ll start a new feed with this also

[WatchMaker]

Oh well done.That looks like it's worked out really well. Nice job. 

[Neverenoughwatches]

39 minutes ago, Gattaca said:

So, I thought I’d update this feed.

I managed to sensitively restore the face as best I could and I’m really pleased with the result. It’s running really sweetly after a full strip down and service, strong amplitude and losing 4 seconds a day. 
I didn’t know what the movement was so reached out to Eterna with some pictures and they tell me it’s a 1020 movement from 1944.

I attach some pictures of the before (first 3 pictures) and after (last 2 pictures)

I’ll start a new feed with this also

Nice one matey. It looks great. Now could you find me one please

[RichardHarris123]

I does look good.  I want one too.  Time to get your metal detector out.  Hehe.