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2 barrels

RichardHarris123
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Neverenoughwatches Distinguished Member

Neverenoughwatches

Posted
Posted
8 minutes ago, RichardHarris123 said:

Another one to feast your eyes on. 

English lever, two barrels?

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Aw you're  just mean 👎

Just now, Neverenoughwatches said:

Aw you're  just mean 👎

But you have just handed me my new name.  #Two Barrels#. Does it make me sound tough ?

48 minutes ago, RichardHarris123 said:

Another one to feast your eyes on. 

English lever, two barrels?

20220507_145133.jpg

20220507_145020.jpg

20220507_144927.jpg

20220507_144846.jpg

Taking the place of the fuseé

oldhippy Distinguished Member

oldhippy

Posted
Posted

 The reason the fusee was invented was because there was no way of having the same thickness in a mainspring, so when the watch was winding down the power was not constant. The invention of the fusee corrected this. 

It should be better because the springs were made had the same thickness end to end, so the rotation of the balance wheel would be the same regardless of what power was driving the balance to rotate. There are other movements that have twin barrels but only one has a mainspring the other acts as an extra wheel. 

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Neverenoughwatches Distinguished Member

Neverenoughwatches

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, oldhippy said:

 The reason the fusee was invented was because there was no way of having the same thickness in a mainspring, so when the watch was winding down the power was not constant. The invention of the fusee corrected this. 

It should be better because the springs were made had the same thickness end to end, so the rotation of the balance wheel would be the same regardless of what power was driving the balance to rotate. There are other movements that have twin barrels but only one has a mainspring the other acts as an extra wheel. 

Ah ok  thank you but the movement Richard has should have a spring in each barrel ? I'm trying to decide on buying an Elgin pocket watch I've seen, it doesn't work but I'm tempted to buy as it is quite nice and hopefully just needs a service. I want to try something like this before I have a go at the fusee I have.

JohnR725 Distinguished Member

JohnR725

Posted
Posted

I always think of these as transition movements which is not the correct technical term. Notice it's a lever escapement versus the verge. It's more tolerant to power fluctuations plus the quality of mainsprings has improved. In other words we no longer need a fusee but for unknown reasons they keep making watches the same design.  This means need something to couple the energy from the mainspring barrel which now has  teeth to the gear train which means you end up with a intermediate wheel basically that looks like a second barrel.

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oldhippy Distinguished Member

oldhippy

Posted
Posted

If you give me the link I'll have a look at it for you. If you don't want to post the link for fear someone might step in message me. 

Neverenoughwatches Distinguished Member

Neverenoughwatches

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, JohnR725 said:

I always think of these as transition movements which is not the correct technical term. Notice it's a lever escapement versus the verge. It's more tolerant to power fluctuations plus the quality of mainsprings has improved. In other words we no longer need a fusee but for unknown reasons they keep making watches the same design.  This means need something to couple the energy from the mainspring barrel which now has  teeth to the gear train which means you end up with a intermediate wheel basically that looks like a second barrel.

Ah I think I'm understanding now John thank you. Between you and O H I seem to be getting my head around it now. I don't know about verge escapement though . I'll  do a little reading up on that.

oldhippy Distinguished Member

oldhippy

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, JohnR725 said:

I always think of these as transition movements which is not the correct technical term. Notice it's a lever escapement versus the verge. It's more tolerant to power fluctuations plus the quality of mainsprings has improved. In other words we no longer need a fusee but for unknown reasons they keep making watches the same design.  This means need something to couple the energy from the mainspring barrel which now has  teeth to the gear train which means you end up with a intermediate wheel basically that looks like a second barrel.

You should take a look at George Daniels co axial escapement. 

Neverenoughwatches Distinguished Member

Neverenoughwatches

Posted
Posted (edited)
40 minutes ago, oldhippy said:

If you give me the link I'll have a look at it for you. If you don't want to post the link for fear someone might step in message me. 

No I don't mind, I'm sure most  of us here are genuine. Unfortunately no crystal,  the dial looks OK at the moment but that may change during delivery.  Bit concerned that it is being placed face down on the hands. I'm just thinking  it's being roughly handled. I do like to see sellers being more careful.https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/384864225800?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=6A8Xu8qMTxO&sssrc=2349624&ssuid=tBiLZaCfRb2&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

36 minutes ago, oldhippy said:

You should take a look at George Daniels co axial escapement. 

Didn't he invent that ? I was reading about him few weeks ago. Arguably was the greatest watchmaker ever

41 minutes ago, JohnR725 said:

I always think of these as transition movements which is not the correct technical term. Notice it's a lever escapement versus the verge. It's more tolerant to power fluctuations plus the quality of mainsprings has improved. In other words we no longer need a fusee but for unknown reasons they keep making watches the same design.  This means need something to couple the energy from the mainspring barrel which now has  teeth to the gear train which means you end up with a intermediate wheel basically that looks like a second barrel.

Thanks John I have some understanding of the verge escapement now. My initial thoughts lead me to the conclusion that they were prone to a lot of wear. 

Edited by Neverenoughwatches
oldhippy Distinguished Member

oldhippy

Posted
Posted

The train is not jeweled so you could have wear in the train. This is at the lower end of Elgins P/W. Price is about right for such a watch. Dial is in good condition just some name nearly rubbed away. Case looks good no sign of the plate rubbing away.   

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Neverenoughwatches Distinguished Member

Neverenoughwatches

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, oldhippy said:

The train is not jeweled so you could have wear in the train. This is at the lower end of Elgins P/W. Price is about right for such a watch. Dial is in good condition just some name nearly rubbed away. Case looks good no sign of the plate rubbing away.   

Thanks OH . I noticed some lettering above the sub dial has worn away. Maybe down to there being no crystal. It may run when serviced but the missing crystal and wear to the dial is putting me off now. Knowing for definite that dial repair  is way beyond most enthusiasts, I always think if I'm not happy with the dial then I just dont want it. Would make a good case though but if parts aren't always interchangeable then the movement if needs repairing then much of it could just be scrap. I appreciate you looking for me 👍

5 minutes ago, oldhippy said:

The train is not jeweled so you could have wear in the train. This is at the lower end of Elgins P/W. Price is about right for such a watch. Dial is in good condition just some name nearly rubbed away. Case looks good no sign of the plate rubbing away.   

 

RichardHarris123 Distinguished Member

RichardHarris123

Posted
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Posted
4 hours ago, JohnR725 said:

I always think of these as transition movements which is not the correct technical term. Notice it's a lever escapement versus the verge. It's more tolerant to power fluctuations plus the quality of mainsprings has improved. In other words we no longer need a fusee but for unknown reasons they keep making watches the same design.  This means need something to couple the energy from the mainspring barrel which now has  teeth to the gear train which means you end up with a intermediate wheel basically that looks like a second barrel.

So it's a intermediate wheel not a second barrel.  Thought it might be a second barrel with spring to give more running time between winding.

Neverenoughwatches Distinguished Member

Neverenoughwatches

Posted
Posted
8 hours ago, RichardHarris123 said:

So it's a intermediate wheel not a second barrel.  Thought it might be a second barrel with spring to give more running time between winding.

That's what I thought as well. Another spring inside as a way of compensating for time keeping fluctuations.  I would be itching to get inside it to have a look.

oldhippy Distinguished Member

oldhippy

Posted
Posted

No this is what I said.

 There are other movements that have twin barrels but only one has a mainspring the other acts as an extra wheel.

Neverenoughwatches Distinguished Member

Neverenoughwatches

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, oldhippy said:

No this is what I said.

 There are other movements that have twin barrels but only one has a mainspring the other acts as an extra wheel.

Ah thanks again OH. I did think that was what you meant. I think John explained it a bit differently. 

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