Citizen Eco Drive (B620) Stem?

[Skippah]

Hi Friends,

I have a Citizen Eco Drive CA4210-16E with a B620 movement. Last year I discovered (when the crown separated!) that the stem had corroded and simply broke away. My first though was to take it to the jeweller I purchased it from a few years earlier and get a repair - the quote back from Citizen was + $AU350! To replace the stem and crown... hmmm, the watch when new cost me less than that. Out of principle I decided to embark on a quest to find the parts online a do it myself! How hard could that be right? Well, so far, a year down the track (on and off) and I am still no wiser on where to get the correct stem??? I think... I may have narrowed down the stem part number as a 065-441 but not overly confident. With the wealth of experience, knowledge and contacts here, I was hoping I could seek your good nature to help me determine what stem I actually need, and where you might recommend I could get one (as well as a new crown - the original stem has corroded off inside where it would usually screw in) :(

below are all the details I have compiled on the watch in question if that helps narrow things. To date, I have found parts for the B620 to be all but ‘unobtainium’ ! . Thank you fir your time to read and fir any advice you could offer me.

Watch Brand: Citizen

Model Number: CA4210-16E

Case Number: S097240

Movement Number: B620

Dial Number: S138545 Y

Band Number: Cit-28556-S53143

Watch Type: Automatic Quartz (Auto/Self Charging, Elecrical)

Watch Design:Water resistant Sport 

Case Material: ST STEEL

Band/Bracelet Type: Leather 

Crystal Style and Material: Round Glass, Flat

Watch Functions: Automatic, Chronograph, Day

Any recommendations would be gratefully appreciated. Thank you sincerely for any advice you could provide. Warm regards, Skippah.

[Nucejoe]

 Show a close up of the crown where stem gets attatched to, if you got the back removed show an a close up of whats remained of the stem, you might could get by with a stem extender. 

Regs 

Joe

[Skippah]

Hi Joe, Excellent suggestion thanks mate. A picture can say so much more! Thank you for your interest mate. Skippah

[Skippah]

[Nucejoe]

Hi Skippah.

In case spares turn out to be too pricy, you might want to consider reusing the original part you have, stem extenders cost a few dollars, of the part you show,

Stem is in good shape, where it counts.

I can't tell from the pictures, if a piece of stem has remained inside the crown threads, if so,  alum dissolves the stem and does'n hurt the crown, as for damage to socket, no big deal, can be fixed.

First thing to do is to get a price quote for new parts, we can then decide which option to take.

Happy holidays and stay safe.

Joe

[Nucejoe]

3 minutes ago, Nucejoe said:

Hi Skippah.

In case spares turn out to be too pricy, you might want to consider reusing the original part you have, stem extenders cost a few dollars, of the part you show,

Stem is in good shape, where it counts.

I can't tell from the pictures, if a piece of stem has remained inside the crown threads, if so,  alum dissolves the stem and does'n hurt the crown, as for damage to socket, no big deal, can be fixed.

First thing to do is to get a price quote for new parts, we can then decide which option to take.

Happy holidays and stay safe.

Joe

Oh, didn't notice that you have mentioned  part of the stem is snapped off inside the crown, I was so bussy looking to find out if there was that missed it.

Alum dissolves what all of stem is still inside the crown.

[jdm]

There are 

13 hours ago, Nucejoe said:

Alum dissolves what all of stem is still inside the crown.

Problem is, it will also damage the crown if it's made of steel, I think that's the case here.
I prefer another method, that is to cut around the crown just enough to grab the stem with pliers or a pin vise (pliers worked better for me).
This can be done with a lathe, or a manual milling device. Since neither tool is  not to an owner or repair enthusiast, I suggest that the OP looks for a competent watchmaker to do the repair. If he says that the cut can't be done, look for another.

[Nucejoe]

1 hour ago, jdm said:

 to cut around the crown round just enough to grab the stem with pliers or a pin vise (pliers worked better for me).

I agree, there be enough thread left in the crown socket to hold the stem, then he may even solder stem-crown for a strong joint.

 

 

 

[Skippah]

Hi Joe and jdm;

Great idea about using Alum to clean the socket Joe! Would never have came to that solution my friend! jdm is indeed correct though, the Crown (appears) to be made of stainless steel. Hmmm...

For all the purists amongst us, time to look away! Haha - At this point I figure I am in a no lose situation. I have had the watch sitting unusable for more than a year now so it has simply become a nice paperweight...

- Citizen quoted me over $AUD350 to replace the stem and crown! Madness, and more than the total cost of a new replacement watch in full. Not going down that route.

- The suggestion of an option of trying to reuse the Crown and remains of the existing Stem has awoken my inner Frankenstein! I have a few 'backyard mechanic' plans forming now.

1. Try to simply solder the broken Stem back onto the crown (and then clean up with a jewelers file etc). Never even considered that as an option!

2. Buy and extender and attempt to drill out the Crown socket and then solder or epoxy the extender into the Crown.

3. Buy a replacement Stem in full and do the same as Plan 2 without using the extender (the Citizen Stem 065-441 looks like the one).

Yes, I know this will sound to a Watch Repair forum like I am planning on doing brain surgery with a hammer and chisel (Sorry!). At the end of the day, if all the above fails and I end up totally destroying the Crown (and remains of the Stem), my mind tells me I am back at the start where I thought I already was, and then I may get creative with a Stem and new style Crown (If I can't find a genuine replacement Crown)?

Thank you so very much for your great support and interest. You have already opened my eyes to innovative ways to solving problems which I would not have even considered, really appreciate this thank you. If nothing else, It is going to be a whole new adventure for me! ha. - I will be certain to let you know how it turned out and, worse case I can be used in the forum as a warning to others of what not to do! Bahahaha.

Wishing you both, and all, a very safe, joyful, and fun break at the end of the year for those that can. It's been a tough year for all of us no doubt, but always trying to look for a bright side, in many ways our global struggles have reminded us all that we still have good people in the world no matter which part or Country we share. Warmest to all my dear friends. Sincerely.

Skippah

 

[KOwatch]

Stem extender and a new crown.  $3.

You're not going to diminish the dollar value of this watch with a replacement crown, and you'll significantly increase it's utility. Alternatively, for the cost of that quoted repair you can buy a donor watch or 2 just for the crown and stem and junk the rest.

It looked to me like you should still be able to get a pin vice on the remainder of that stem anyway, maybe I'm reading the photo wrong. Or try the alum trick.

Lotsa nice crowns available. .8mm thread size, also measure the crown diameter and the diameter of the pendant tube.

Edited December 23, 2020 by KOwatch
more info

[Skippah]

Hi KOwatch, Happy New Year Mate. I hope this year has started well for you (and for all). Thank you very much for your thoughts and suggestions. I ordered a replacement Stem (and a few different extenders just to be sure). All arrived now and I jumped straight in. Sadly, my attempt to drill the remaining piece of the stem that had corroded off in the Crown was a failure (I used a pin vice but might throw all caution to the wind an have a crack with my dremel now! ha). Have decided to try and get a replacement Crown. The stem I ordered (after some great help here) turned out to be perfect! So...now I have a shiny new stem, but no functioning Crown...

The online site I went to for my stem and extenders was called Esslinger.com. For someone like me with just enough knowledge now to be dangerous, it was helpful. I went back there to look for a Crown but am getting confused with all the details on specifications for which one to get, and what I 'think' are the right specs I can't seem to find a suitable replacement on the site?

Could I please draw upon the huge knowledge base we have here to help me understand what specs I should be looking for to find the right replacement Crown. What I 'thought' I was looking for was a "Long Post Crown, Stainless Steel, Tap 11 (0.8mm), with a Crown Diameter of 8.0mm (actually its 7.85mm)". I couldn't seem to find a match on Esslinger.com in the Crown styles I thought were correct. I don't think (?) this would be classed as an 'oversized Crown' right?

Have posted a few pictures below with measurements which I believe are the critical ones? Any assistance, guidance and leads to a replacement would be greatly appreciated, thank you.

Also, to give a little back! Anyone with this style and model of watch that needs a replacement stem; the details are:

- Part No: 065-441 (Citizen / Miyota Stem), and it is a Tap 11 thread (0.8mm). Only took me two years to track that down... Hahaha

Edited January 16, 2021 by Skippah

[KOwatch]

Well I may have spoken too soon, that's a very large crown. This one looks good for your watch, except that it's 2mm smaller than your old crown, and doesn't have the outer flange so it will sit above that pedestal. If you can live with that, prob your best bet.

8 x Ø6.00mm x 2.00, SS C43456  £2.65 (CousinsUK)

 

I didn't see anything more suitable on Esslinger.

 

If I'm looking at that correctly, the indent on the long crown tube is where a 2nd o-ring (double o-ring) would fit. You can get o-rings that size, if you do manage to alum out the broken stem. Your old one does look a bit chewed up now, but possibly not to the point that you can use it as-is or correct the damage with some sanding and polishing. Since the stem was in there, you haven't crushed the internally-threaded tube.

Alternate crowns might be available, the big diameters I saw were all tap 0.9mm, or much smaller diameter crowns, maxing out at 4.5mm. You can get stem extenders that change the tap size, it might open up a few more crowns options, but not really anything like your crown. If I'm reading the photos correctly, it's an unusual crown in that it has has a 5.6mm ID flange that sits over the 5.3OD pedestal, a bit like a screw down crown without threads. You probably won't find that outside of citizen.

 

You could try this parts search using the case number, I know there's a bunch of numbers on citizen casebacks so one of them might turn up something.  I tried your case number with no luck, and a similar number S009090 turned up "restricted by manufacturer"

https://www.cousinsuk.com/category/filter/citizen-case-parts

The donor movement might be an option. Someone, somewhere,  has a broken one. You might try going with a less-suitable crown that fits on your new stem for now, and work on the old crown with alum. Or take the new stem and old crown to a shop with the skills that can sort it out. I'm not against shopping out a tricky job, might be a lot less than the new watch or Citizen part option.

Good luck!