A question about expected accuracy

[JcW]

So I purchased a knockoff Seiko turtle, intentionally, and am not happy with its time keeping ability. Now I originally assumed this was because of its quality, but as I researched into mechanical watches I learned that they are susceptible to outside influences. 

I work factory maintenance and I wear this watch 24 hours a day. I am very active with my hands at my job and there is a lot of jarring motions that would effect the watch.

During the day the watch will run fast, I mean 5 MINUTES fast even when I have it regulated to run 2 to 3 minutes slow overnight. 

My intention is to replaced the movment from what I "believe" is a CH2083M or DG2083M Chinese movment to an SII NH36.

But my question is this, how much of this is the movment and how much is my movment?  Can I expect better accuracy the NH36 or because of how I wear it i will always have problems? Thank you.

[Klassiker]

In your job, do you get your watch close to high currents / magnetic fields?

[jdm]

17 hours ago, JcW said:

So I purchased a knockoff Seiko turtle, 

My intention is to replaced the movment from what I "believe" is a CH2083M or DG2083M Chinese movment to an SII NH36.

Normally fake Seiko use a NH36 because it's cheap and of good quality. You can post a picture if you are in doubt. 

If you need predictable accuracy I recommend that you do not try swapping and the like, just get a quartz watch. 

[JcW]

7 hours ago, Klassiker said:

In your job, do you get your watch close to high currents / magnetic fields?

Sometimes, but notanywhere near enough to cause what I am seeing. I am pretty sure its the extra motion.

[JcW]

3 hours ago, jdm said:

Normally fake Seiko use a NH36 because it's cheap and of good quality. You can post a picture if you are in doubt. 

Yes I knew that before purchasing so I wasn't to worried about it, but when I opened it up after I started having issues this is what I found.

Also I don't NEED predictable accuracy, I just would like to be in the +/- sec per day not minutes.  Currently I am trying to get it be a few minutes slow in the morning and a few minutes fast when I go to bed. If it stayed like that only needing adjustment once a week to bring it back that would be fine.

I am mostly worried about wearing out the crown threads (being a knockoff) they are not the smoothest.

[Klassiker]

I doubt it is the movement or jarring of your hands. I can't Imagine that being severe enough to cause this behaviour. Are you using a timegrapher to do the regulation? I would like to see the traces in different positions, fully wound and after 8 hours running down.

[jdm]

4 hours ago, JcW said:

Yes I knew that before purchasing so I wasn't to worried about it, but when I opened it up after I started having issues this is what I found.

You've got the very bottom grade in the  counterfeiting ladder, below how a "regular fake" Seiko is made:

https://youtube.com/watch?v=lFG8AUENQPc

 

Quote

Also I don't NEED predictable accuracy, I just would like to be in the +/- sec per day not minutes. 

Need or like, sorry to be blunt but trying to get accuracy or anything else from that mov.t is like polishing a turd.

Quartz always does good, quality mechanical also can.

Edited September 20, 2020 by jdm

[JcW]

7 hours ago, jdm said:

Need or like, sorry to be blunt but trying to get accuracy or anything else from that mov.t is like polishing a turd

Yes this is why I was planning to replace it with an NH36.

[JcW]

10 hours ago, Klassiker said:

I doubt it is the movement or jarring of your hands. I can't Imagine that being severe enough to cause this behaviour. Are you using a timegrapher to do the regulation? 

Its the only thing that I can find to explain it. If I set the watch on a shelf I can get it to go 8 hours with only a few seconds change. I am not yet using a timegrapher to regulate, this is my first foray into automatic watches. Currently I am just matching it to my last watch, which is a Casio. It slows down while I a sleeping and speeds up when I am awake, and more so while I am at work. Keep in mind that I walk about 6 or 7 miles a night at work, and if I am not moving I am wrenching or running power tools. The harsh environment is the main reason I went with the fake, I didn't want to destroy a $500 watch at work.

[JcW]

Perhaps I should back a bit. How this started is my father-in-law had this really cool kokopelli watch band, vintage sterling silver tips with a recessed image and stainless expanding band. He had several watches on it but all were pretty simple quartz movments. When he died this year I asked if I could have it.

I decided to do a turquoise and coral inlay(in the end I added brass also) and I wanted a watch to match the turquoise color. This was the only one I found that I liked. I really like the esthetics of this watch so I would like to keep this it albeit with some mod/changes. I would also like to keep it an Automatic or at least mechanical, because I am really enjoying learning about them.

So yes I know I can get a quartz that would be more accurate the 20 dollar Casio that I set this one to fits the bill, but I would like to make this work. I like i said before I am not looking for chronograph accuracy just something I don't have to reset twice a day.

 

[jdm]

55 minutes ago, JcW said:

I like i said before I am not looking for chronograph accuracy just something I don't have to reset twice a day.

Get a real Seiko or at least an SII watch. They are the best value ever in automatics, are accurate, robust and widely appreciated. 

[Klassiker]

I don't agree that this movement is beyond saving, for the level of performance you are looking for. However, you need the right tools and materials to do the work. If you are not able to DIY then the sensible option is to replace the movement. If you are sure that a genuine NH36 will fit, then that would be the was to go.

[JcW]

8 hours ago, Klassiker said:

I don't agree that this movement is beyond saving, for the level of performance you are looking for.

You may be right, and I am not just going to through it away either. If the NH36 will work, I assume it would because its a clone but I have to bring my calipers home to make sure, I plan on using this movment as a practice movment while I am learning.

By the way do you have a timegrapher that you recommend?

Edited September 21, 2020 by JcW

[JcW]

9 hours ago, jdm said:

Get a real Seiko or at least an SII watch. They are the best value ever in automatics, are accurate, robust and widely appreciated. 

I haven't ruled out getting a SRDP21, I want to see how the fake holds up over time. Actually, the accuracy issue aside, this one is holding up quite well. Better than the Casio and much better than Armitron before that.

[JcW]

Thank you both for the help and advice. 

[jdm]

3 hours ago, JcW said:

By the way do you have a timegrapher that you recommend?

Out comphrensive, pinned topic. There are others for pretty much any tool subject.

 

[Klassiker]

I have the Weishi 1900 model and am very happy with it.

Edited September 21, 2020 by Klassiker

[jdm]

1 minute ago, Klassiker said:

 If you are not able to DIY then the sensible option is to replace the movement. If you are sure that a genuine NH36 will fit, then that would be the way to go.

You think that all sizes, hands, mov.t ring, calendar position, stem height do  match, so to guarantee an easy job and good result to a complete beginner? I know for a fact that is not so, from that my advice not to throw good money after bad, and spare learning efforts for a better cause.

[Klassiker]

Dear jdm,

Not sure at all, which is why I qualified my recommend with "If you are sure..."

You are right to list all the things which might not be interchangeable. Perhaps JcW isn't aware of the risk, and perhaps I should have also pointed it out, and if I wasn't in holiday, with a rubbish internet connection and a tablet with an infuriating auto-correct, maybe I would have taken more trouble. Just like you could have stated yesterday already, that an NH36 definitely will not fit. But you didn't.

So thanks for adding more detail. That's the strength of a forum, isn't it? Everyone chips in, all contributions in good faith are gratefully received, and the end result is better than any one of us alone would have produced.

 

[JcW]

3 hours ago, jdm said:

You think that all sizes, hands, mov.t ring, calendar position, stem height do  match, so to guarantee an easy job and good result to a complete beginner? I know for a fact that is not so, from that my advice not to throw good money after bad, and spare learning efforts for a better cause.

I am aware of all these issues. I am also aware of a robust mod community that answers most of these concerns.  I fear this is drifting away from the topic, but what I think I need to determine before I decide if this is feasible is if the movement ring is the same size or if I can swap the ring,if the dial "feet" line up with it, and if the case threads for the crown match aftermarket ones that are available. My hope as a newbie is that they copied it close enough that the answer is yes to at least few of these.

The question I was asking in this topic was if I could expect better results from the NH36.

If the answer is yes then it is worth my time to look I to the feasibility of the swap. I am not afraid of the effort or money on parts, I have a long way to go before I reach the cost the the equivalent Seiko right now (including the toolkit I bought) I am only about $80 in. Also I would truly enjoy making a cheap knockoff into a one of a kind piece of "reasonable" quality. 

However if the answer is no or if I find that nothing from this watch is reusable then I will just keep what I have and deal with its inaccuracies because I absolutely love the way it looks with the band.

Again thank you both for your time and knowledge.

[jdm]

6 hours ago, JcW said:

I am aware of all these issues. I am also aware of a robust mod community that answers most of these concerns.

Seiko modders mostly use and swap parts that are made for Seiko, especially SKX007 / 009. That is easy due to the commonality that is built in Seiko 5 and their brothers diver's watches. You can check and ask more details on WUS and SCWF forums.

Quote

I fear this is drifting away from the topic, but what I think I need to determine before I decide if this is feasible is if the movement ring is the same size or if I can swap the ring

It is not the same mov.t ring.

Quote

If the dial "feet" line up with it,

They don't.

Quote

and if the case threads for the crown match aftermarket ones that are available.

Assuming that crown/stem are separate parts, the first stay to thread to a new stem.

Quote

The question I was asking in this topic was if I could expect better results from the NH36.

Of course. We have many topics on it here and as mentioned above already Seiko and SII are quality products that normally deliver exceptional value in the automatic watch market. But as I stated before unless one likes to cobble and glue things together, swapping around dissimilar parts is not the best start to learning asking. My opinion only,

Edited September 22, 2020 by jdm