Catgut or Nylon?

[Scouseget]

Hi from warmish Edmonton, where the winter is almost done - for now!

I'm working on an old grandfather clock for a friend, probably 18th century, that is weight driven. This was overhauled about 20 years ago apparently, and the watchmaker used "catgut" for the cords. These have now hardened and are unusable as they are so stiff. I went on the Perrin's website and they offer catgut but state that this is usually used for clocks with wooden pulleys, however the clock I am working on has all brass pulleys. My question therefore is, should I use catgut, or should I use nylon or other synthetic? I don't think the owner will have a preference for catgut from an authenticity point of view and will be fine with whatever I use. 

What would actually happen if I used catgut with brass pulleys? Would nylon or other synthetic damage the brass pulleys over time? If you can give me your thoughts of the pros of cons of both, I'd appreciate it.

Thanks as always.

Roger Adams

[oldhippy]

The best thing to use is galvanized wire. With today’s climate and home heating gut dries out. This stuff is much better it is coated so will not mark anything on the clock. A little tip when threading it into the barrel tie a knot big enough so it will not slip through but small enough so you can poke it inside the barrel. Before pushing it inside heat it and it will mould and be so strong you will have no fear of it breaking. Gut will not damage anything it is completely safe.

[Scouseget]

9 hours ago, oldhippy said:

The best thing to use is galvanized wire. With today’s climate and home heating gut dries out. This stuff is much better it is coated so will not mark anything on the clock. A little tip when threading it into the barrel tie a knot big enough so it will not slip through but small enough so you can poke it inside the barrel. Before pushing it inside heat it and it will mould and be so strong you will have no fear of it breaking. Gut will not damage anything it is completely safe.

 

Thanks for your insight oldhippy.

Coated galvanized wire makes sense as it shouldn't age or stretch nearly as much. As this will be stronger size for size compared to catgut, can it be thinner? The reason I ask is that the clock has two different diameter catgut ropes at the moment, one being 1.4mm dia, and the other 1.5mm dia so could I use just 1.4mm galvanized cable for both or perhaps even thinner than that? Also, should this be special clock grade galvanized wire or any stranded and coated galvanized wire from say a hardware store?

I did try to find such wire at a big clock repair online store but it wasn't available in coated, i.e., just stranded galvanized cable and only seems to be available in 1.2mm dia. They also had brass cable which they indicate can also be used for such an application - what do you think of this?

FYI, the weights are 16 lbs each

[oldhippy]

It sounds to me as if one were replaced and is a little different because that’s what was available at the time.

 

I had a fishing tackle shop near my workshop and sometimes I would buy the line there. I think for the thickness it was about 200lb breaking strain. You see you need the correct thickness for the grooves in the barrel. Mind you some Longcase barrels are smooth with no grooves.  

 

 

This is what you need.

https://www.cousinsuk.com/product/longcase-clock-lines

code G5146

Edited March 25, 2018 by oldhippy

[clockshop]

Would you not go with gut line again? i certainly would not use nylon it is just not the same and has memory and i find it harder to work with  , i have not used galvanized wire but i have no doubt its good as i have seen it on some high end WYKE & FINNEY, clocks,

 

                                regards john

[Scouseget]

2 hours ago, clockshop said:

Would you not go with gut line again? i certainly would not use nylon it is just not the same and has memory and i find it harder to work with  , i have not used galvanized wire but i have no doubt its good as i have seen it on some high end WYKE & FINNEY, clocks,

 

                                regards john

Based on old hippie's advice, I decided to go with coated galvanized wire rather than catgut or nylon. This should last a lot longer than catgut but will probably detract from the authentic look a bit. If the owner doesn't like the look, then it's a fairly easy task to change it to catgut at a later date. 

At the moment I'm learning how to make bushings as the bearing holes in the brass plates are pretty well all oval and very sloppy; it's amazing what 250 years of use can do to a bearing surface. Not surprisingly the pivots aren't in too bad a condition and can be burnished to an acceptable finish but, alas, not the brass. I'm finding working on clocks a lot easier than watches, though there's still lots to learn of course.

[oldhippy]

The galvanized wire for Long Case clocks is extremely good, beside it is not going to show when the movement is in its case. I wouldn’t recommend it if you are putting in new lines on a movement where you can see such as a Vienna Regulator.   

[Scouseget]

On 4/4/2018 at 2:27 PM, Scouseget said:

Based on old hippie's advice, I decided to go with coated galvanized wire rather than catgut or nylon. This should last a lot longer than catgut but will probably detract from the authentic look a bit. If the owner doesn't like the look, then it's a fairly easy task to change it to catgut at a later date. 

At the moment I'm learning how to make bushings as the bearing holes in the brass plates are pretty well all oval and very sloppy; it's amazing what 250 years of use can do to a bearing surface. Not surprisingly the pivots aren't in too bad a condition and can be burnished to an acceptable finish but, alas, not the brass. I'm finding working on clocks a lot easier than watches, though there's still lots to learn of course.

Well the clock is now running really well after much pivot polishing and re-bushing, the bushes for which I made on the lathe from scratch. I used the coated galvanized wire as advised, and it looks good except for a couple of what are probably minor points.

The first is that one of the galvanized wires has developed a vicious triple twist when the weight comes off and I cannot get rid of them. It's probably not a problem long term as once the movement is reinstalled in the case and the weights attached, then the wires will never be relaxed but being as **BLEEP** as I am, I'm not very comfortable with this situation.

The second is how to knot up the unused end that anchors the cable. The usual knots used for catgut don't work so I've wrapped the free end around some wooden dowels but I'm sure there must be a better solution than that, yes?

As always, any help will be much appreciated.

Cheers

Scouseget

[oldhippy]

Make sure you remember to put the pullies on first.

Fitting the gut to the seat board. What you have done using peg wood is fine. I was taught to fix it like this. I hope you will be able to understand me. After threading it through the seat board, you make 3 or four loops the sort of loop when you have tied your shoe lace. You need enough so the line will not drop through the seat board. Then you take the line that is going to hang down for the weight twist it to make a single loop and thread it over the bunch of loops and move it to the middle and pull tight, do that again. The weight its self will make sure it stays tight and it will not move.

The kink in the line I do not know how that happened. Just make sure that if the barrel is grooved and not smooth the line sits in proper and does not go into the next as this could cause problems.