ELGIN POCKET WATCH BROKEN ROLLER JEWEL

[Jrx2]

I have elgin pocket watch im working on, notice the roller jewel is missing. Where can i psossibly get a completely new balance wheel with the jewel already intact? I am not skilled enough to replace a jewel,I rather just replace the whole balance it self. Also if somebody can please identify this movement as well? 

 

- will upload pictures soon 

[azkid]

The serial number will get you lots of info on pocketwatchdatabase.com

I will help with parts if I can but my stash is small.

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[Jrx2]

for some reason the site is not letting me upload pictures, but what i have here is 20906561 

[khunter]

1 hour ago, Jrx2 said:

for some reason the site is not letting me upload pictures, but what i have here is 20906561 

I had the same problem with files, the file size has to be small enough, the biggest ones I've uploaded successfully have been around 1.5megs or so....

On replacing the balance. It IS possible, however, finding an exact match might prove difficult, as they were often matched to the movement (weight, hairspring strength, etc). A possibly better/easier route is to replace the roller table with one with a good impulse jewel. The database shows your movement as being a combination double roller configuration, the safety roller and roller table are all one piece. A donor movement of the same size and grade would be pretty easy to come by I would think, and a simple roller remover and staking punch are all that are required to replace the parts. If you don't have these tools, then replacing the balance as a whole may be your only choice, and it would have to be in good shape, with hairspring, and no broken pivots. I'm thinning out my spare parts, and I don't think I have any 12s Elgin material, but if I do you'd be welcome to it....

[Jrx2]

Sadly I do not have the right tools for this kind of job, but I think replacing the balance would be less difficult for somebody like me who is still beginner at servicing watches, but yes if you have any extra laying around I'll be more the happy to pay you for it. 

[JohnR725]

I think you're going to find the best thing to do is set this watch aside until the future. One of the problems with American pocket watches versus modern watches is the parts were usually hand fit. If you look at assembling American pocket watches on YouTube you'll notice that a lot of the parts are hand fit or adjusted for the specific watch. Then the serial number you usually find it on all the plates and hand scribed on the balance wheel itself. Modern watches their mass-produced in swap those but pocket watches it's a little more problematic as to what the outcome will be. But it doesn't mean it's impossible I've seen pocket watches with balance wheels the serial numbers didn't match.

 

[khunter]

9 hours ago, Jrx2 said:

Sadly I do not have the right tools for this kind of job, but I think replacing the balance would be less difficult for somebody like me who is still beginner at servicing watches, but yes if you have any extra laying around I'll be more the happy to pay you for it. 

I'll have a look this weekend, I'd much rather see the roller replaced than the whole balance, as stated above many are marked with the serial number of the watch, and matching numbers are desirable. If nothing else you could send me the balance and I could replace it for you provided I can find a replacement. 

To truly do it right you have to match the jewel to the pallet fork slot, otherwise the fit may be too tight or loose.

I'll dig around my parts stash and see what I have or can do...

[azkid]

Well... I have a spare 12S.

I would be happy to send a balance assembly your way if it will help. Cannibalize it as you need?

I have not yet replaced a roller jewel but fiddled with one that seemed crooked.

(I found that the precision temperature control and concentrated application of heat of my hot air rework station seemed more promising than the traditional heat source... Electronics is one of my other hobbies... )

Let me know if I can help.

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[JohnR725]

The other problem with roller jewels is besides the already mentioned it has to be the right size is the shellac. There seems to be a quality difference which affects the melting temperature and how well it flows and just because it's in a little bottle labeled for watch repair doesn't mean it's going to be right. Then another option is the flake shellac used in woodwork except the flakes are quite right for use and the quantity is big enough for a whole bunch of people for their lifetime.

Then if you going to send your balance wheel away to have someone see what they can do I would include the entire watch. You need the pallet fork to figure out the roller jewel size. Then you really want to test it out to make sure it's right and that everything fits if you start swapping things. For instance if the safety roller changes its size by very much you may have to readjust the escapement which is why changing the roller jewel is usually a nicer option if you can do it.

 

[azkid]

I'll have a look this weekend, I'd much rather see the roller replaced than the whole balance, as stated above many are marked with the serial number of the watch, and matching numbers are desirable. If nothing else you could send me the balance and I could replace it for you provided I can find a replacement. 
To truly do it right you have to match the jewel to the pallet fork slot, otherwise the fit may be too tight or loose.
I'll dig around my parts stash and see what I have or can do...

If you can't find a replacement roller perhaps one can be pulled from one of my parts movements?

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[khunter]

28 minutes ago, azkid said:

If you can't find a replacement roller perhaps one can be pulled from one of my parts movements?

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I have plenty of 16s parts but no 12s for Elgins, I don't know that I ever worked on any. A donor movement will probably be the best bet, as long as it's from the same size and grade.