Gruen Wristwatch 525 Ss-083

[Shahbaz]

Hi All,

My name is Shahbaz. I have just registered with Watch Repair Talk, and I am eager to learn about watches and their repairs.

I just bought an old and semi-rusted Gruen Wristwatch. I have tried to uncase the movement, but the movement is larger than the opening at the back.

Can anyone guide me in how to get the movement out?

 

With Kindest regards,

 

Shahbaz

[WillFly]

Looks as though you might have to remove the bezel - some watches are front-loaders!

[Geo]

As Will says, it comes out the front when you remove the bezel complete with crystal still in place. If you look very carefully, you should find a section of the joint has a very small slot to allow a knife to be used to pry off the bezel. Be very careful if using a hand held knife because as the bezel pops off you may follow through and damage the hands and dial. You can purchase a bezel removing tool that makes the job safer.

[Geo]

This is the type of tool that I use.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Deluxe-CASE-OPENER-snap-on-case-back-tool-repairs-NEW-watchmakers-repairs-tool-/201070646748?pt=UK_Jewellery_Watches_WatchAccessories_SpareParts_SM&hash=item2ed0be95dc

https://www.cousinsuk.com/catalog/tools/snap-on-case-openers/case-back-tool-watch-snap-on-openers-bench-top

Edited April 11, 2014 by Geo

[Shahbaz]

Thank you WillFly, Thank you Geo.

I will try the bezel and report back.

By the way, I did try Mark's method by pumping air through the stem's hole; it did not budge the crystal. The reason is mostly because of the rust build-up which hinders the air flow. 

Regards,

Shahbaz

[Shahbaz]

Hi there,

I checked the bezel. It is not removable.

In the picture I have had attached, there is the ring that has created the channel for the seal gasket. It looks as if, it is compression fit or threaded in, because I see a joint there.

The movement is sitting inside of this ring. But since the ring’s outside circumference is tapered in, the movement can’t pass through.

Is it possible that the ring has to be removed in order to get the movement out? And if so, how would I get that out? Is there a tool for its removal?

With Regards,

Shahbaz.

[sidmind]

the ring can be pried out, probably gunked up which is preventing it from 'feeling' like it wants to come out but it will.

t

[Shahbaz]

Hi All,

Thanks sidmind. The said ring is a dust shield, and was frozen to the watch case. I used plenty of penetrating oil and let it sit overnight. Next day I used a wooden skewer and pried it all-around, and forced it upward and out.

Now, the movement is out, and man, wasn’t I happy. I took the dial out and used cold water and dish soap, and gave it a good bath. Guess what happened? I truly clean the dial. All printed markings were gone. The only things left are the numbers, which are appliqués. Upon further investigation, I found that the winding stem is solidly rusted in the case tube, and is not going to come out.

Any advice on how to remove the stem out?

 

Well, after all these struggles, I realized two things, first, the best tool to have is patience, and second is to have two watches; ruin the first one and learn how to fix the second one.

Thank you all for your advice.

Shahbaz.

[sidmind]

too bad about the dial, they can be very delicate and it is always recommended just to leave them as is without cleaning.

 

On the stem,  I bet you a $1 it will come out.

 

have you removed the dial from the watch? if so can you provide a photo of the stem from the dial side?

Usually when I get a stuck stem I back the stem detent skew in and out a few turns while pushing down, then tap the stem on a desk.

 

by looking at the rest of the watch I am just not seeing the kind of rust that would lock the stem in forever, but that is why I would like to see the underside.

[Shahbaz]

Hi sidmind,

Here I have attached 5 peictures for your reveiw and advice.

The stem is clean and shiny to the left of the winding gear, but solidly rusted to the right of the gear.

The stem was so weak due to the rust, that it snaped as Ier  touched the winding crown.

I do hope that you, or may be MARK, have a solution. I do not want to junk this plate. It was made in Germany. I do not think that I can find another German made Gruen on the eBay??. Any way, I am ooking forward to pay you that $1.00. bill; I would even frame it for you. 

 

Regards,

 

Shahbaz.

 

P.S.: How would I re-attach pictures?

Edited April 16, 2014 by Shahbaz

[Shahbaz]

[Shahbaz]

Correction:" I am looking"

Edited April 16, 2014 by Shahbaz

[sidmind]

oh wow, yeah that is much worse than I figured it would be. it looked so clean from the other side.

 

what is the movement number on it?  I would think with a new stem and click detent parts it can be salvaged.

[sidmind]

nm on movement number. got it from the subject/ :)

[Shahbaz]

I have an idea that may work, 50/50.

I will use a jeweler’s saw, and cut the stem on both sides of the clutch, and remove the clutch.

Then use a thin x 1/8" or so hardened steel, inserting it in the opening where the clutch was. Laying it on the cut end of the stem and gently tapping it out.

I will start the process and keep you posted.

Regards,

Shahbaz.

[Geo]

I wish you well with your idea. If you go ahead with this and the tip of the stem is rusted into the plate you may never get it out unless by drilling, and that would require a carbide drill and some sort of drill guide to stabilise the drill. What I would suggest is to completely strip the movement then submerge it in some Plus Gas for about a week before going any further. After a week with the movement still in the small jar of Plus Gas, to give it a good couple of blasts in the ultrasonic cleaner. Also try heating it in a pan of boiling water before gentle persuasion. If you do this you may just get things to move before carrying out you major surgery.

Here's a link for Plus Gas, it's the best release agent I've ever used.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Plus-Gas-Lubricant-Spout-Tin-/360697911631?pt=UK_Crafts_Cardmaking_Scrapbooking_Glue_Tape_EH&var=&hash=item53fb45594f

[WillFly]

That Plus Gas looks very interesting, Geo - I've never heard of that before. Do you put some into a shallow dish or saucer and then immerse the movement in it totally? Does it clean as well as de-rust - or just mainly remove rust?

[Geo]

That Plus Gas looks very interesting, Geo - I've never heard of that before. Do you put some into a shallow dish or saucer and then immerse the movement in it totally? Does it clean as well as de-rust - or just mainly remove rust?

Hi Will, Plus Gas is not a rust remover or proper lubricant. It is a very fine fluids that is designed to slowly work it's way into screw threads that are seized.

I have used it for years when working on old motorcycles and cars. It works best if you can either submerge the item if is small like a watch movement, or if it is large, form a small dam of plasticine around the offending nut or shaft then flood with Plus Gas. It also comes in spay form for these hard to reach parts. Regarding cleaning, it will to a degree but not what I would recommend using it for.

It does not remove rust, it only allows the rusty bond to break easier. It is excellent, but occasionally other methods have to be employed.

briefly:

Plus Gas...........Release Agent

WD40................Water Displacement Agent

Oil......................Lubricant

[WillFly]

Thanks Geo, that's very clear.

[Shahbaz]

Thanks Geo, I will try your suggestion first.

Kind Regards,

Shahbaz.

[Shahbaz]

MISSION ACUMPLISHED!!

Hi There,

I followed the procedures I outlined earlier to extract the rusted winding stem out, and added a few steps. I couldn’t get the GassPlus locally, and used lighter fluid instead.

Then I did the cutting of the stems in two locations. I used a wooden cloth pins in order to control the blade from hitting the opposite side, after stem was cut, and used cigarette lighter to heat the rusted area. I used a 2x4 yellow pine, and made a small dimple in it to allow the rusted stem to penetrate into, at the same time to protect the movement’s plate from being damaged. I used screwdriver shaft to drive the stem flush with the winding gear, and from there I used my bent tip scriber to drive the rusted/frozen stem out of the bushing. I am happy with the results, even though I did rush and damaged the dial.

Well, now I will go ahead with cleaning, looking for any damaged parts, and if all well, then I will oil the movement and case it.

If every thing is OK and watch start ticking, then I look for a used German made dial and a new stem.

I would like to thank you all for your advice, which was very helpful.

I will post any problem along the way, seeking your advice.

Until then,

Best Regards,

Shahbaz.

P.S.: I have added some pictures showing the work.

Edited April 16, 2014 by Shahbaz

[Geo]

Well done sir, that's excellent that you've succeeded. I look forward to seeing the finished result!

[Shahbaz]

Thank You Geo.

[Lee]

nice one.

[WillFly]

Patience rewarded - well done!