What to do with radium roamer dial

[graemeW]

I have this roamer waiting in line. I'd quite like to pull it apart and see what parts it needs. But before I do that, I'd like to remove the lume.

I've removed the lume from 3 or 4 dials and hand sets so far but I've always done it under water or under IPA to contain the particles. They were all enamel dials though so nice and easy, under water, scrape it off with cocktail sticks, no danger.

This though, I'm not sure how the dial is finished. Also, the markings I believe are printed. I am super cautious of damaging the markings.

I like the patina on the dial even though it's quite heavy. I don't mind if whatever I do improves the patina somewhat but it's not a requirement. I don't want to make it worse though!

Is doing this dial under water a risk? I assume under IPA is a definite risk.

[mikepilk]

I don't put dials under water. I put cling film on the desk, and work wearing latex gloves and a mask. I use cotton buds or cleaning swabs to wet each number in turn. Let them soak for a while, and the radium paint goes really soft. Then I gently push it off the dial with some sharpened pegwood - picking it up with a cotton bud, which goes in to a zip seal bag with all anything else contaminated for disposal. 

 

[graemeW]

4 minutes ago, mikepilk said:

I don't put dials under water. I put cling film on the desk, and work wearing latex gloves and a mask. I use cotton buds or cleaning swabs to wet each number in turn. Let them soak for a while, and the radium paint goes really soft. Then I gently push it off the dial with some sharpened pegwood - picking it up with a cotton bud, which goes in to a zip seal bag with all anything else contaminated for disposal. 

 

Thanks, I'll try that.

I was even considering making up a small makeshift box with a window, like a small disposable sand blasting cabinet, to work inside and contain any particles. But I couldn't shake the feeling it was excessive.

It's easy with enamel dials!

[caseback]

Just curious: why would you remove the lume? 

[mikepilk]

7 hours ago, graemeW said:

I was even considering making up a small makeshift box with a window, like a small disposable sand blasting cabinet, to work inside and contain any particles. But I couldn't shake the feeling it was excessive.

That is excessive. I'm more cautious than many, wearing gloves and a mask.

I initially wipe over the dial with a damp bud to remove any loose particles. Then wet each number in turn. Once damped, there is no danger of bits flaking off. 

[graemeW]

4 hours ago, caseback said:

Just curious: why would you remove the lume? 

Peace of mind mainly

[Mercurial]

If the lume on the dial is stable enough that you can remove the dial, store it, and then reinstall it on the movement without it crumbling everywhere, then it can be left as is. 

You should still take precautions to capture any flakes that come off the dial during handling, but once the dial is safely reinstalled and cased up in the watch there’s little to worry about. 

Unless you intend to relume a radium dial, there’s no need to remove the radium lume unless it’s degraded to the point that it’s unstable and crumbling away. 

It might even be safer to leave the lume alone, than tackle removing it in a safe and controlled manner that ensures that you capture all of it as it’s removed. 

Of course this is a personal choice, there is no wrong answer, but my own opinion is that radium dials with stable lume are best left alone, unless the dial is to be relumed. 

I know that some people choose to stabilise the radium lume using clear lacquer or other similar means, but I haven’t attempted that. 

Best Regards,

Mark

[GPrideaux]

People have different views about this. I don't think I'd be comfortable knowing that a watch was adding to the background Radon-222 exposure in my home and that my children might be inhaling it. Sure, the amount from one watch is unlikely to be significant, but the people on this forum don't have just one watch, do they? I'm with @graemeW; I'd get rid of it for peace of mind. (Actually, I have so far actively avoided watches that might have radium lume.)

[Mercurial]

@GPrideauxThere’s certainly never any harm in erring on the side of caution, it is a personal choice. 

That said, unless it is done with care and a understanding, the removal of radium lume from a dial could pose greater risks than leaving it undisturbed.

Safe lume removal could be quite challenging in the case of a dial that isn’t porcelain or ceramic, if you care about preserving the appearance of the dial.

Best Regards,

Mark

[graemeW]

I am just happier for it not to be there. It's failing. I'll 're lume the watch after.

The other issues, as a beginner, is it may be safe in the case but I'll no doubt have the movement in and put of this case many times. Each time causing more concern.

It's a nag, so I'll just remove it.

 

Edited January 25 by graemeW

[Knebo]

Definitely a personal decision. I decided not to work on watches with radium at all - and as an extension, also not to own any. 

I know it's a bit over-cautions. But I know (from experience) that I can't enjoy radium watches.. 

[graemeW]

6 minutes ago, Knebo said:

Definitely a personal decision. I decided not to work on watches with radium at all - and as an extension, also not to own any. 

I know it's a bit over-cautions. But I know (from experience) that I can't enjoy radium watches.. 

This is it. Having that nagging thought in my head, knowing if I take the crystal off, has will escape. Not knowing if lume particles have got to the movement since it was last cleaned, so if regulating, who knows what's getting to you. Then feeling like I need to wash my hands after every time I pick it up.

I'd just rather remove it and 're do the lume.

I understand why people don't buy them, but my interests are pre 1950 watches, and I like military style, so I don't have much choice!

[Knebo]

45 minutes ago, graemeW said:

understand why people don't buy them, but my interests are pre 1950 watches, and I like military style, so I don't have much choice!

I know! It's hard for me, too. There are some amazing watches with radium. E.g. I love the "fat lug" Omega Seamaster from thr 50s (ref 2846/2848), but always radium. 

There are three dangers from radium:

- the least: direct radiation from wearing them

- medium: Radon gas emission from the decay of radium (it's suggested keep radium watches in well ventilated rooms) 

- the most: somehow ingesting or inhaling the actual radium when opening cases or working on them. 

[graemeW]

Took the lume off this today. Went ok I guess, not fantastic though.

The spots of corrosion ment the lume was very stuck in the odd small place. It was also on top of the outline printing. Most came off easy with some water and toothpicks. Some I had to go at with a tiny oiler.

This caused some scratches, but only inside the numbers, and it will be relumed so not a big deal. Still unhappy about it though as it means if I have to do this again, I definitely need to improve technique.

There was also a small amount of loss to the black outlines. Nothing you can see without magnification. Most of the black printing is stuck SOLID, but the dial is obviously corroding underneath the finish so a few areas were weak.

Again, I will hopefully be able to touch them up, and once relumed in a dark aged lume, it will look great.

It's not like the dial is mint, and I don't want it to be anyway.

Movement parts ordered, case measured up, need a bit if brass to make the case and this project can get started!