How to correct Westminster Chime Sequence?

[dnhb]

I have received a mantle clock in which the chime sequence is wrong & the single strike on the 1/2hr is missing. Counting away from the back plate the sequences I observe are:

1/4: 1342 (instead of 4321).

1/2: 4321, 2431

3/4: 2342, 4231, 1342

Hr: 4231, 2431, 2342, 4231

The only pattern I can detect is that the 2nd group in each of the last 3 lines above should be 1st.

I'd be grateful for advice as to the procedure to follow in correcting this: I imagine I could make things much worse by trial & error!

[AndyGSi]

21 minutes ago, dnhb said:

I have received a mantle clock in which the chime sequence is wrong & the single strike on the 1/2hr is missing. Counting away from the back plate the sequences I observe are:

1/4: 1342 (instead of 4321).

1/2: 4321, 2431

3/4: 2342, 4231, 1342

Hr: 4231, 2431, 2342, 4231

The only pattern I can detect is that the 2nd group in each of the last 3 lines above should be 1st.

I'd be grateful for advice as to the procedure to follow in correcting this: I imagine I could make things much worse by trial & error!

Photos please.

[Michael20]

Hi dnhb, I am completely self taught so maybe others will spot an error in what I am about to say - I have done this once by following instructions I found on the internet. I made some notes based on those instructions which I'll attach.

The Westminster Chime Note Sequence.pdf

[oldhippy]

Here you are. 

[Bod]

Qiuck basic question.

which is note 1?

The longest rod, or shortest.

 

Bod.

[Rixy]

I think that if 4321 is the descending scale then 1 will be the longest rod. The clock is four chimes ahead and resetting is not difficult. You can try to do it with the movement still in the case, which I'll describe first. But it is likely you will need to take the movement out to do it.

To correct it without removing it from the case, stop the clock and move the time round to quarter past and let it play its incorrect sequence.  Depending what the make is, there will be a way to disengage the chiming system from its train. Usually you need to remove a wheel on the outside of the back plate. If you can do without removing the movement you are lucky! Once disengaged, manually turn the barrel (with pins or studs on) and listen as the hammers hit the bars. As soon as you hear the descending scale, stop and reconnect the hammer system to the train by replacing the wheel.

If you have to take the movement out you do the same as above but will need to look for the descending sequence rather than listen for it. If your chime rods are in ascending order then look out for 4321. Now reconnect the system to the train and run it a few times. Check that the last hammer of every sequence drops (they can stay high and dry if you didn't move the barrel enough) and check also that when it goes into warning (a couple of minutes before it chimes) that the hammers don't lift (if they do it means you moved the barrel too far).

Like Andy asked, send some pictures and we can give clearer guidance.

OH, I played those notes on the piano - not a tune I recognise!

 

[oldhippy]

This is easy to follow. 

 

[Rixy]

That looks like an Enfield. The barrel is held in place with a small screw that can be loosened for repositioning. 

[ChrisInOz]

12 hours ago, oldhippy said:

Here you are. 

I'm a bit confused by this.   The usual Westminster chime requires only four notes,  and can be played on four chime rods.   This list specifies 7 chime rods.   Also the first quarter usually is played in descending sequence ( 1234 or 4321,  depending on which direction you have numbered the rods.)

I just tried playing those notes on the piano,  and they don't sound like any chime I have heard before.

Could this be referring to some other chime sequence?

13 hours ago, Michael20 said:

The Westminster Chime Note Sequence.pdf 76.15 kB · 13 downloads

This one seems more like the chime sequence with which I am familiar.

[dnhb]

20 hours ago, Rixy said:

I think that if 4321 is the descending scale then 1 will be the longest rod. The clock is four chimes ahead and resetting is not difficult. You can try to do it with the movement still in the case, which I'll describe first. But it is likely you will need to take the movement out to do it.

To correct it without removing it from the case, stop the clock and move the time round to quarter past and let it play its incorrect sequence.  Depending what the make is, there will be a way to disengage the chiming system from its train. Usually you need to remove a wheel on the outside of the back plate. If you can do without removing the movement you are lucky! Once disengaged, manually turn the barrel (with pins or studs on) and listen as the hammers hit the bars. As soon as you hear the descending scale, stop and reconnect the hammer system to the train by replacing the wheel.

If you have to take the movement out you do the same as above but will need to look for the descending sequence rather than listen for it. If your chime rods are in ascending order then look out for 4321. Now reconnect the system to the train and run it a few times. Check that the last hammer of every sequence drops (they can stay high and dry if you didn't move the barrel enough) and check also that when it goes into warning (a couple of minutes before it chimes) that the hammers don't lift (if they do it means you moved the barrel too far).

Like Andy asked, send some pictures and we can give clearer guidance.

OH, I played those notes on the piano - not a tune I recognise!

 

Thanks so much, Rixy. Took the movement out & followed your guidance: only needed to move the barrel through one set of pins. Was consequently able to take clock back to owner & set it up for her.  She's texted to say she's so pleased to hear the Clock going again: the sound takes her back to her childhood when she last heard it! Very satisfying....Thanks again.

On 12/16/2024 at 12:31 PM, Michael20 said:

Hi dnhb, I am completely self taught so maybe others will spot an error in what I am about to say - I have done this once by following instructions I found on the internet. I made some notes based on those instructions which I'll attach.

The Westminster Chime Note Sequence.pdf 76.15 kB · 17 downloads

Thanks, Michael: You have a good teacher!

[Rixy]

Well done dnhb. You can add that to your list of developing skills! Glad the owner was so pleased with it.