Rolex Cameror Cuss & Co Pocket Watch

[Zee]

Hey everyone, I’m new here. I’m into modern watches and always been an admirer but today walked into an antique shop and picked up this beautiful Cameror Cuss Rolex pocket watch. It sparked an interest in me and I’m keen to learn more about the watch. Would anyone here be able to point me in the right direction to learn more about this and rough estimates on value. Thanks in advance!

[RichardHarris123]

Hello and welcome from Leeds, England.  Dennison was a famous English maker of watch cases, yours is rolled gold.  I don't recognise the movement, is it a Rolex ?

[AndyGSi]

Welcome to the forum.

If you want a value you're best searching the internet to see what they've sold or are selling for.

My first impression is that something not right about it.

Movement and engraving on it look wrong and I'd have expected it to be at least 9ct gold case.

[Zee]

I couldn’t really find others online that were like this. Some similar ones but again there differences/discrepancies. Wanted to know a rough value to see if I paid a fair price or not. More keen to just know the history of this or even if it is authentic. Didn’t know there were fakes of these out there.

[nevenbekriev]

This is Montilier movement, which is normal for Rolex pocket watch. Rolex never did pocket movements, but used Montilier, Cortebert and GT movements mainly.

[tomh207]

At the time this was made, early 1900’s Rolex was what we would now call a microbrand. They sourced movements from Switzerland and definitely sourced cases from Dennison. This may be a collaboration between the movement manufacturer and Rolex (Hans Wildorf), hard to say. As it’s a Dennison star case it is not high end in their range so maybe not worth as much as would be thought.

 

Tom

Oh, they were probably still based in London at this time, where they were founded.

 

[AndyGSi]

26 minutes ago, nevenbekriev said:

This is Montilier movement, which is normal for Rolex pocket watch. Rolex never did pocket movements, but used Montilier, Cortebert and GT movements mainly.

If it was a Rolex Montilier 663 wouldn't you have expected it to be marked as Rolex?

[Zee]

My main confusion is why only the dial says Rolex and also why the case has no such hallmark for the gold. But maybe early Dennison cases and also very early Rolex watch?

[tomh207]

Basically because Rolex wasn’t the behemoth it has become at that time, they were just trying to get recognition and make sales. Wildorf was a great salesman and understood marketing way beyond his time. They made(put together) good watches that were reliable, that is what the much vaunted reputation was built on, affordable watches that would be accurate and affordable. 
 

Tom

[AndyGSi]

42 minutes ago, Zee said:

My main confusion is why only the dial says Rolex and also why the case has no such hallmark for the gold. But maybe early Dennison cases and also very early Rolex watch?

The case is a Dennison Star which is their lowest grade of case and is Gold Filled as detailed in the link below.

https://www.timewornwatches.co.uk/guides/the-dennison-watch-case-company/

The movement is after 1928 so quite a few years after Rolex started.

Here's a couple of examples from the late 20s with 9ct Gold cases.

https://www.dawsonsauctions.co.uk/auction/lot/263-a-camerer-cuss--co-double-signed-rolex/?lot=79671&sd=1

https://www.bonhams.com/auction/29889/lot/15/camerer-cuss-and-co-186-uxbridge-road-london-a-9k-gold-keyless-wind-open-face-pocket-watch-birmingham-hallmark-for-1926/

Edited November 15, 2024 by AndyGSi

[Zee]

Thanks for the information. The movement is stamped 662 but I couldn’t figure out what year that would be. I also think it’s an earlier example than the ones on the links you shared since the case doesn’t feature the hallmarks (I may be wrong, just guessing they didn’t hallmark earlier on). I’m still to figure out if the watch was sold by Rolex or Cameror and why the names of both brands are used

[nevenbekriev]

The ones on the link are with GT movements.

[AndyGSi]

9 minutes ago, Zee said:

Thanks for the information. The movement is stamped 662 but I couldn’t figure out what year that would be. I also think it’s an earlier example than the ones on the links you shared since the case doesn’t feature the hallmarks (I may be wrong, just guessing they didn’t hallmark earlier on). I’m still to figure out if the watch was sold by Rolex or Cameror and why the names of both brands are used

Yours is a Denison Star case so not real Gold and therefore no Hallmarks.

With the 662 Movement I'd still put it at late 20s or early 30s.

Edit

Cameron & Cuss were just the retailer and it's common practice to put the retailers name on the dial.

Edited November 16, 2024 by AndyGSi