watch cleaning machine What to look out for when buying a used watch cleaning machine?

[Pap3r]

  On 6/17/2024 at 10:47 AM, Neverenoughwatches said:

I imagine a machine in the supplier's showroom, they need to have running perfect.  Both HectorLooi and I had the same problems with the wobble which was excessive to begin with and the gaps under the seperatators. I also need to place a shim between the holder and the basket to further correct the wobble which could not be completed with just filing the basket tab notches.

It runs ok now but i wasn't impressed with the quality standard but like i said it was a third of the price.

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I see thank you. Would you say £220 is worthwhile for a machine? Naturally, if I went with the National Electric, it would be cheaper. 

[Neverenoughwatches]

  On 6/17/2024 at 11:00 AM, Pap3r said:

I see thank you. Would you say £220 is worthwhile for a machine? Naturally, if I went with the National Electric, it would be cheaper. 

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Is this £ 220 for a new Pearl cleaner? 

[Pap3r]

  On 6/17/2024 at 11:03 AM, Neverenoughwatches said:

Is this £ 220 for a new Pearl cleaner? 

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The est. total cost £220 of buying and restoring either the red vintage Brenray or the National Electric. The new price of a Pearl Cleaner is £460.

[Neverenoughwatches]

  On 6/17/2024 at 11:35 AM, Pap3r said:

The est. total cost £220 of buying and restoring either the red vintage Brenray or the National Electric. The new price of a Pearl Cleaner is £460.

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Ah ok. A new machine is double the price.  I dont know much about cleaning machines ( mine is a very simple diy affair, very easy to fix or replace cheaply and very adjustable in speed, it has a motor that spins a thing which is basically all cleaning machines are and a warm fan or hairdryer does the rest, British logic and ingenuity at it's best ) but if either restoration is good and within the estimated cost then i think you would have a better machine than the pearl for less than half the price. 

[Pap3r]

  On 6/17/2024 at 11:45 AM, Neverenoughwatches said:

Ah ok. A new machine is double the price.  I dont know much about cleaning machines ( mine is a very simple diy affair, very easy to fix or replace cheaply and very adjustable in speed, it has a motor that spins a thing which is basically all cleaning machines are and a warm fan or hairdryer does the rest, British logic and ingenuity at it's best ) but if either restoration is good and within the estimated cost then i think you would have a better machine than the pearl for less than half the price. 

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Thank you. We shall see. What's the spec and wattage of your motor? Is it DC or AC?

[Neverenoughwatches]

  On 6/17/2024 at 12:23 PM, Pap3r said:

Thank you. We shall see. What's the spec and wattage of your motor? Is it DC or AC?

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it runs from AC  electric. Perhaps a picture would better explain my set up, if you laugh i won't speak to you again . Prepare to be blown away, are you ready ? 

You haven't said " I was born ready " yet.   I'm waiting

[Pap3r]

  On 6/17/2024 at 12:30 PM, Neverenoughwatches said:

it runs from AC  electric. Perhaps a picture would better explain my set up, if you laugh i won't speak to you again . Prepare to be blown away, are you ready ? 

You haven't said " I was born ready " yet.   I'm waiting

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I was born ready. Let's bring it.

[Neverenoughwatches]

  On 6/17/2024 at 12:47 PM, Pap3r said:

I was born ready. Let's bring it.

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Thats what i like to hear fella  , someone with some blood in their veins .

     " TAH- DAHAAAA "️️   

There's never a decent imoji when you want one 

If you questions , which I'm sure you will have. 1. Yes i could well be one card short of a full pack.  2.  Yes I'm serious this IS my actual set up 3. Dont forget what i said about laughing at it.  Fire away I'm  all ears,    eyes...........whatever

[Pap3r]

  On 6/17/2024 at 12:58 PM, Neverenoughwatches said:

Thats what i like to hear fella  , someone with some blood in their veins .

     " TAH- DAHAAAA "️️   

There's never a decent imoji when you want one 

If you questions , which I'm sure you will have. 1. Yes i could well be one card short of a full pack.  2.  Yes I'm serious this IS my actual set up 3. Dont forget what i said about laughing at it.  Fire away I'm  all ears,    eyes...........whatever

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Great piece of kit. Is that a tin of oats? I see it looks like to be a macgyvered power drill. Nice. How did you control the speed? Don't tell me you hold it while it does all the cleaning cycles? Where did you get that nice mount and stand for the drill? Why was there a need for a step down transformer for 230V to 143V?? Does the hair dryer not get hot enough to melt the shellac on the pallet fork and such? That's a repurposed oven timer right? What's the white appliance? Cool. 

[Neverenoughwatches]

  On 6/17/2024 at 1:32 PM, Pap3r said:

Great piece of kit. Is that a tin of oats? I see it looks like to be a macgyvered power drill. Nice. How did you control the speed? Don't tell me you hold it while it does all the cleaning cycles? Where did you get that nice mount and stand for the drill? Why was there a need for a step down transformer for 230V to 143V?? Does the hair dryer not get hot enough to melt the shellac on the pallet fork and such? That's a repurposed oven timer right? What's the white appliance? Cool. 

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Haha ok so let us begin . Yes the oats tin is a temporary modified heat reflector/ retainer until i find something more..... lets say  " the part " looking. No not mcgyvered but an A Team special reconstructed spinney thingymabob whirlygig device.  The speed of both the drill and hairdryer are controlled by a very sophisticated and complicated piece of apparatus called a " SPEED CONTROLLER " at the extortionate price of £15.99 . No i dont need to hold anything the drill is in a cheap drill stand ( cost £5 for both from a carboot sale ) the travel on the press is 85mm which is enough to lower and raise the basket in and out of the cleaning jars. The " speed controller "  is just a voltage regulator and usable on just about any electrical device to control the speed of a motor or heat output within the full range of a domestic AC electrical supply. Shellaced parts i hand clean and dry separately, i dont risk them at all, shellac will start to melt at around 65 °. The timer , yep an old Smiths timer, i think that was a quid and the white appliance is a food dehydrator, i rarely use that now, i think parts need to be dried quicker than that can achieve. I think thats covered everything.  Feel free to ask anything else. Besides the basket you are looking at around 100 quid in total for everything you see here including the ultrasonic and the dehydrator. 

The ultrasonic i also rarely use , combined with an ammoniated solution ( elma wf pro , which i desperately need to use up and not buy anymore ) and it's cavitation action it is too bloody aggressive imo.  I also have something even more diy-ish, simpler, cheaper and more portable  that i like for cleaning right next to where i work on my bench. What do you need for cleaning ? A solution that cleans and rinses well that leaves no residue and a device that spins your parts round and around through the solution with some added method of agitation, there are a multitude of ways to achieve that and it does not need to be complicated or expensive, trust me . What you are paying for mostly with the average proprietary machine ( I don't mean 1000's for automated) is mostly a little bit of convenience, i bet i could swap my jars out as quick if not quicker than something like these machines you are looking at. 

Ps . I'm also impressed you managed not to laugh,  i would have

[RichardHarris123]

Nothing to laugh at, if it works, it works.  Yes if money was no object a professional automated machine would be more efficient and look the part but for most of us several thousand pounds is too much. 

[Neverenoughwatches]

  On 6/17/2024 at 4:05 PM, RichardHarris123 said:

Nothing to laugh at, if it works, it works.  Yes if money was no object a professional automated machine would be more efficient and look the part but for most of us several thousand pounds is too much. 

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i wasn't being serious Rich, as cheap as it was and I've not actually finished with it yet, the drill stand needs a wooden base attaching and the whole thing spinning around so there is more height available for some deeper better square ribbed jars that should provide a bit more agitation. Yep as cheap as it is i would put it against any basic machine, its only one way so i have to find other ways to ramp up the turbulence, but i can't fault the finished cleaning results at all, especially with the switch to a parafin clean , hell that stuff lifts dirt like nobody's business. 

[RichardHarris123]

Ideally the baffles would be on the side of the jars, of course the jars would have to be wide enough to accommodate the baffles and the baskets. 

[Neverenoughwatches]

  On 6/17/2024 at 4:39 PM, RichardHarris123 said:

Ideally the baffles would be on the side of the jars, of course the jars would have to be wide enough to accommodate the baffles and the baskets. 

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I'm thinking of adding some ss wide hole mesh, i haven't tried these jars yet, they should be about as good as you can get for creating turbulence. When i was weight training i researched a lot about blenders , apparently the best shape for splitting up food particles is a clover shape. Ive never seen clover shaped jars, when i do there'll be 4 of em in my shopping trolley

[RichardHarris123]

Yes, the square jars shouldn't need baffles. Hurry up, try them. 

[Pap3r]

  On 6/17/2024 at 2:02 PM, Neverenoughwatches said:

Haha ok so let us begin . Yes the oats tin is a temporary modified heat reflector/ retainer until i find something more..... lets say  " the part " looking. No not mcgyvered but an A Team special reconstructed spinney thingymabob whirlygig device.  The speed of both the drill and hairdryer are controlled by a very sophisticated and complicated piece of apparatus called a " SPEED CONTROLLER " at the extortionate price of £15.99 . No i dont need to hold anything the drill is in a cheap drill stand ( cost £5 for both from a carboot sale ) the travel on the press is 85mm which is enough to lower and raise the basket in and out of the cleaning jars. The " speed controller "  is just a voltage regulator and usable on just about any electrical device to control the speed of a motor or heat output within the full range of a domestic AC electrical supply. Shellaced parts i hand clean and dry separately, i dont risk them at all, shellac will start to melt at around 65 °. The timer , yep an old Smiths timer, i think that was a quid and the white appliance is a food dehydrator, i rarely use that now, i think parts need to be dried quicker than that can achieve. I think thats covered everything.  Feel free to ask anything else. Besides the basket you are looking at around 100 quid in total for everything you see here including the ultrasonic and the dehydrator. 

The ultrasonic i also rarely use , combined with an ammoniated solution ( elma wf pro , which i desperately need to use up and not buy anymore ) and it's cavitation action it is too bloody aggressive imo.  I also have something even more diy-ish, simpler, cheaper and more portable  that i like for cleaning right next to where i work on my bench. What do you need for cleaning ? A solution that cleans and rinses well that leaves no residue and a device that spins your parts round and around through the solution with some added method of agitation, there are a multitude of ways to achieve that and it does not need to be complicated or expensive, trust me . What you are paying for mostly with the average proprietary machine ( I don't mean 1000's for automated) is mostly a little bit of convenience, i bet i could swap my jars out as quick if not quicker than something like these machines you are looking at. 

Ps . I'm also impressed you managed not to laugh,  i would have

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Amazing mate. Makes me think if I should diy with that cheap universal motor the seller has. What's your diy cleaning solutions? 

[Neverenoughwatches]

  On 6/17/2024 at 4:57 PM, RichardHarris123 said:

Yes, the square jars shouldn't need baffles. Hurry up, try them. 

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Need a bit more height to fit under the basket yet, might be tomorrow evening's mod if i get chance. Mum was hard work yesterday,  i needed a rest day today of doing absolutely nothing . The jars are 95mm square 180mm high and 75mm opening , i think the basket is either 60 or 65mm. 

  On 6/17/2024 at 4:59 PM, Pap3r said:

Amazing mate. Makes me think if I should diy with that cheap universal motor the seller has. What's your diy cleaning solutions? 

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The drill and stand was a fiver the volt regulator was 16 quid and the 3 jars 6 quid for the 3 , the new square ribbed jars are 3 quid each, i bought 4 in case i never see them for sale again. I just like this set up its so simple and not hard work at all. If i could figure out how to  post a vid of how easy it is to use.  I'd love others to come up with something similar and save a shed load of cash.  I'm always on the lookout for stuff like this, it's not even ingenuity, it is literally just cobbling something together that works , its that simple. If the drill burns out which it may do in a couple of years then i switch it for another, i think i have 3 that fit that stand. I have a plan for using a room fan motor, far quieter and those induction motors run forever plus they have 3 speeds and are as cheap as chips. Haha I'm on a mission to convert folk into my way of thinking . My solutions are not diy just yet, current is elma wf pro and IPA , but i really like the way paraffin cleans ( kerosene ) it is similar to lighter fluid in composition,but has little to no evaporation rate. Brake cleaner does a great job of rinsing it off. Those 2 together by hand cleaning imo is the best cleaning i have had to date and i have tried a fair few so called degreasers.  I owe the paraffin idea to @Waggy  he mentioned kerosene a couple of weeks ago so i thought a solution experiment was in order. 

[HectorLooi]

  On 6/17/2024 at 5:02 PM, Neverenoughwatches said:

i really like the way paraffin cleans ( kerosene ) it is similar to lighter fluid in composition,but has little to no evaporation rate.

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I just got a bottle of kerosene from a hardware store. Surprisingly, not many hardware stores stock this stuff anymore.

I tried it on the clock that I was working on. It really works well as a pre-cleaner. All the treacle and tar just dissolves in kerosene. The only drawback is the smell but it's heck of a lot better than turpentine or petrol.

Maybe the next time I'll try deodorized kerosene, which cost 5X more.

[Pap3r]

  On 6/20/2024 at 8:37 AM, HectorLooi said:

I just got a bottle of kerosene from a hardware store. Surprisingly, not many hardware stores stock this stuff anymore.

I tried it on the clock that I was working on. It really works well as a pre-cleaner. All the treacle and tar just dissolves in kerosene. The only drawback is the smell but it's heck of a lot better than turpentine or petrol.

Maybe the next time I'll try deodorized kerosene, which cost 5X more.

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So which is better? Benzine or liquid paraffin?

[Neverenoughwatches]

  On 6/20/2024 at 8:37 AM, HectorLooi said:

I just got a bottle of kerosene from a hardware store. Surprisingly, not many hardware stores stock this stuff anymore.

I tried it on the clock that I was working on. It really works well as a pre-cleaner. All the treacle and tar just dissolves in kerosene. The only drawback is the smell but it's heck of a lot better than turpentine or petrol.

Maybe the next time I'll try deodorized kerosene, which cost 5X more.

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It does Hector,  it absolutely stinks, i wear a cloth covid mask which dulls what you can smell while the lid is off. It dissolves grease and grime like butter melting in a hot pan, I've been hand cleaning recently in a small tin, last night a load of grime from a mainspring just floated to the surface. It has a greasy feel to it but that disappears with IPA or brake cleaner which i have started to use. It wouldn't surprise me if something cheap like this is the main ingredient of some proprietary cleaners. I wonder if that comment has just blown wide open the doors of the watch cleaning industry . 

  On 6/20/2024 at 1:21 PM, Pap3r said:

So which is better? Benzine or liquid paraffin?

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I think I'm right in saying both Benzine and Paraffin are two different products of naptha processing.  Benzine i think is light distilled naptha not unlike light fluid and evaporates fast, where paraffin is much heavier and takes a long time to evaporate.  The experiment i did a week or so ago shows how different they are , the paraffin wets surfaces quickly probably why it cleans so well.

[HectorLooi]

  On 6/20/2024 at 1:57 PM, Neverenoughwatches said:

It wouldn't surprise me if something cheap like this is the main ingredient of some proprietary cleaners.

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I have a sneaky suspicion that L&R Rinse #3 might be deodorized kerosene. 

[Pap3r]

  On 6/20/2024 at 2:27 PM, HectorLooi said:

I have a sneaky suspicion that L&R Rinse #3 might be deodorized kerosene. 

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Kerosene is the same as paraffin right?

[Neverenoughwatches]

  On 6/20/2024 at 9:40 PM, Pap3r said:

Kerosene is the same as paraffin right?

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As far as i found out they are similar, kerosene is a type of paraffin,  but exactly the difference i dont know.  

[Pap3r]

  On 6/20/2024 at 9:45 PM, Neverenoughwatches said:

As far as i found out they are similar, kerosene is a type of paraffin,  but exactly the difference i dont know.  

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I see, they advertise here, that paraffin is a kerosene based fuel. So I guess its the same?

A local watchmaker here, said to me, he uses Isopropyl Alcohol, Benzine and Hexane. Anyone used Hexane?

[Neverenoughwatches]

  On 6/21/2024 at 10:39 AM, Pap3r said:

I see, they advertise here, that paraffin is a kerosene based fuel. So I guess its the same?

A local watchmaker here, said to me, he uses Isopropyl Alcohol, Benzine and Hexane. Anyone used Hexane?

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Evaporates like crazy.