Generic screws for unknown movements

[Chief]

I've bought a movement from eBay but there is no caliber number anywhere on it (that I can see). Its definitely been apart before as there are a few missing screws. It's a 15 jewel swiss made movement. The crown and ratchet wheels both have left hand threaded screws if that helps. I'm wondering if anyone knows a way of identifying it or, better still, if there are any generic screw assortments I can buy to replace the missing screws. There's a couple of bridge screws missing, the click screw and the set lever screw.

Thanks in advance.

[RichardHarris123]

Try this , post a photo of the movement.  Someone may recognise it. 

[Chief]

1 hour ago, RichardHarris123 said:

post a photo of the movement.  Someone may recognise it.

Thanks Richard, I'll give that site a go! This is the movement. It's battered and beat up and will probably never run properly! But I'm using it as a training movement and I'd like to try and at least get it fully assembled.

[RichardHarris123]

Have you got the click, it's missing in the photo. 

[Neverenoughwatches]

21 minutes ago, Chief said:

Thanks Richard, I'll give that site a go! This is the movement. It's battered and beat up and will probably never run properly! But I'm using it as a training movement and I'd like to try and at least get it fully assembled.

That is really familiar,  wild guess is it's a watch movement . No i actually recognise it, i use bridge shapes to identify movements and associate the shape with something , this one is mutant elephant( yes thats really a thing i do,  believe it or not ) . Its not a bad movement tbf.  Take it out of the case, remove the dial and lay it dial side up , we'll talk you through how to identify it properly without behaving like a crazy person

[Chief]

Yeah I've taken the click off!

[RichardHarris123]

15 minutes ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

this one is mutant elephant(

More like aardvark. 

[mikepilk]

3 hours ago, Chief said:

 The crown and ratchet wheels both have left hand threaded screws if that helps. I'm wondering if anyone knows a way of identifying it or, better still, if there are any generic

A Schild movements often have left handed crown screws. A pic of the keyless works would help identify it, and the size of the movement.

Looks like someone has had a, not very subtle, attempt to decrease play in the centre wheel. And the hairspring looks like it needs some work.

From the scratches on the bridges, it looks like it was last serviced by a drunken baboon, but it's a good movement to practice on. Good luck 

Once we identify it, it's often easiest/cheapest to buy a similar scrap movement for screws/parts

Edited May 1 by mikepilk

[Chief]

21 minutes ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

That is really familiar,  wild guess is it's a watch movement . No i actually recognise it, i use bridge shapes to identify movements and associate the shape with something , this one is mutant elephant( yes thats really a thing i do,  believe it or not ) . Its not a bad movement tbf.  Take it out of the case, remove the dial and lay it dial side up , we'll talk you through how to identify it properly without behaving like a crazy person

I can definitely see elephant and aardvark and possibly some sort of bird with a large beak anyway I'll have a go of getting it flipped over tonight and send some pics

[Neverenoughwatches]

1 minute ago, RichardHarris123 said:

More like aardvark. 

Yep i can see where you're going with that one Rich.  Sooo now that I've frightened the OP into submission . Chief i do apologise for some reason unbeknown to myself I'm in a happy silly mood. So seriously to identify the movement lets have a look at the dial side, learning this part is straightforward, just need a little logic and something called the # BESTFIT BOOKS # . Or the other non American equivalents. 

[Waggy]

Did you have a look under the ballance? Often the movement maker/number is hidden there.

[Chief]

33 minutes ago, Waggy said:

Did you have a look under the ballance? Often the movement maker/number is hidden there.

I haven't yet but I will take it out tonight! Thank you. Will post pics of dial side tonight too.

[mikepilk]

I'm going for an AS movement - the general layout, screw/jewel positions are similar.

 

[Neverenoughwatches]

1 minute ago, mikepilk said:

I'm going for an AS movement - the general layout, screw/jewel positions are similar.

 

Thats an AS 984  mike.  

Just now, Neverenoughwatches said:

Thats an AS 984  mike.  

Found in the Enicar and Rotary ATPs

[mikepilk]

6 minutes ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

Thats an AS 984  mike.  

Not necessarily  .

According to Ranfft : "except bridge shapes no differences known between 984, 1009, 1010, 1013, 1028, 1033, 1035, 1038, 1048, 1050, 1055, 1077, 1084, 1089, 1091, 1141, 1211, 1218, 1231, 1259, 1277, 1285, 1313, 1377, 1440, 1614"

So take your pic. It's an earlyish one, as no Incabloc, so probably 1930-40s

[Neverenoughwatches]

Ive seen it labled as an 1002 as well, the mysteries of watch calibres eh

[Chief]

So I found what I believe is the setting lever screw! Am I right in thinking the screw next to the click is the correct one for the setting lever? However if it is, it doesn't fit in the hole which I believe is for it! I can get the lever to sit nicely on the stem and line up with a hole, but the screw only goes as far as the shoulder and stops. It's as though the hole is too small! The dial side has been disassembled by the way, the other wheels are in my tray

Edited May 1 by Chief
Added pic

[Geotex]

Chief-

The picture below shows the three parts from the dial side that are most useful to "fingerprint" a movement in conjunction with the diameter of the movement.  That's why forum participants are always asking for dial side photos in posts asking for identification. 

As far as the setting lever screw, it actually sits loose in the main plate. The threads engage the setting lever below, and the elongated stem above the shoulder sticks through a hole in one of the bridge plates so that it's held captive if unscrewed all the way.  So you may be fine as far as that goes. 

[Chief]

Thanks Geotex,

From what I can see the keyless works on mine is completely different to those in the photo, I had a bit of a Google and it looks like it's called a rocking bar?? I can't seem to find a single match online though.

As far as the setting lever screw goes, you've just explained what I'm doing wrong and why it was probably left out in the first place. It needs to go in before the bridge . That's why the hole isn't big enough because it's designed to be smaller to stop the screw falling out until the bridge is removed. Thank you for that! I'll remove the bridge tonight and get it refit.

[Neverenoughwatches]

4 minutes ago, Chief said:

Thanks Geotex,

From what I can see the keyless works on mine is completely different to those in the photo, I had a bit of a Google and it looks like it's called a rocking bar?? I can't seem to find a single match online though.

As far as the setting lever screw goes, you've just explained what I'm doing wrong and why it was probably left out in the first place. It needs to go in before the bridge . That's why the hole isn't big enough because it's designed to be smaller to stop the screw falling out until the bridge is removed. Thank you for that! I'll remove the bridge tonight and get it refit.

You have a rocking bar set and wind design chief, still usable for identification.  We just need the plate diameter now.

[Chief]

10 hours ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

You have a rocking bar set and wind design chief, still usable for identification.  We just need the plate diameter now.

The diameter of the movement is 23.6mm

[Neverenoughwatches]

3 hours ago, Chief said:

The diameter of the movement is 23.6mm

This dimension now needs to be converted to a ligne measurement. 

[Chief]

59 minutes ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

This dimension now needs to be converted to a ligne measurement. 

10.46 according to Google. What do I do with it once I have the measurement in lignes?

[Neverenoughwatches]

2 hours ago, Chief said:

10.46 according to Google. What do I do with it once I have the measurement in lignes?

Yep, so we got a 10 1/2  ligne movement, thats the starting point now these bad boys books should hopefully get us across the finishing line . Next we need a good clear picture of that rocking bar, the setting lever and the setting lever spring. I've already got an idea what it might be.

8 minutes ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

Yep, so we got a 10 1/2  ligne movement, thats the starting point now these bad boys books should hopefully get us across the finishing line . Next we need a good clear picture of that rocking bar, the setting lever and the setting lever spring. I've already got an idea what it might be.

 

[Chief]

On 5/3/2024 at 12:01 AM, Neverenoughwatches said:

Yep, so we got a 10 1/2  ligne movement, thats the starting point now these bad boys books should hopefully get us across the finishing line . Next we need a good clear picture of that rocking bar, the setting lever and the setting lever spring. I've already got an idea what it might be.

 

Sorry for the delay, I was at a wedding yesterday.

Are these ok?