Removal of safety roller and roller table?

[Neverenoughwatches]

18 minutes ago, nevenbekriev said:

Reducing hight is possible, but it is not so simple. I have done it several times and understood that material has to be grinded from both sides equaly, othervice the spring bends to one side and gets 'good for nothing' The lenght is easy to reduce, and the bridle to be converted too

Thanks nev, i knew much of what you have just told me. Strength cannot be adjusted , length is not really a problem but i wondered how you would change the height. I thought about grinding it down on a diamond plate while it is fully wound. 

[BillM]

15 hours ago, nevenbekriev said:

Well, I am pritty sure that if You do the test with the old spring, You will learn something interesting. I, for ehample, do not change the old springs if not broken, and I have never purchased a new spring in my life. When change needed, i will find proper spring among old used springs I have. Yes, I have met springs that are to tired ahd have replaced them, but this is one-two in 100. And I usually work with 200-300 years old watshes.

The free oscillations test: turn the balance to 180 degr. and release it. Count the free oscillations to full stop. Do this in both horizontal positions, see if there is difference. For a wrist movement, expected result is more than 100, this means that no losses in the hairspring and everything is OK with pivots/stones

I did the free oscillation test, I got 120 in the CH position and 108 in the FH position.  Seems pretty good based on what you stated above. ( Using the Iphone slow-motion setting made this doable for me, not sure I could count the oscillations otherwise).

I may go ahead and do the main spring comparison, just to learn the difference, as you said.  

I have read many, many times that changing the mainspring in a full service is just the right thing to do. I am curious as to when you think a spring is too "tired" to be reused.

Here is a photo of the spring I removed. I know you can't do a real inspection from just this photo, but I will say that I see no issues with it other than it's taken a set. I'm guessing you would reuse this spring.  

Bill

[nevenbekriev]

The spring is OK.

3 hours ago, BillM said:

Using the Iphone slow-motion setting made this doable for me, not sure I could count the oscillations otherwise...

This makes me doubt if You count correctly. Just to be sure, can You show the video? 100 osc./2,5 Hz = 40 sec. Do oscillations continue for 40 sec or 20 only?

The spring is OK, test it.

[BillM]

I didnt save the video, but I did time it, CH was 55.2 sec, and FH was 50.6 sec.  

[nevenbekriev]

Then everything OK

[BillM]

On 1/23/2024 at 1:32 AM, nevenbekriev said:

Well, I am pritty sure that if You do the test with the old spring, You will learn something interesting. I, for ehample, do not change the old springs if not broken, and I have never purchased a new spring in my life. 

OK, So I tested the watch with the old mainspring and could not get more than 190 deg of amplitude. 

I installed a new mainspring and I now get 233 deg of amplitude.

I still need to regulate and maybe adjust for beat error, but it seems to be running well now.

Thanks for all the help everyone  

Bill

[nevenbekriev]

Well, what I expected was at least 250 with the old one and above 300 with the new.  190 is bad, and even 233 is far not enough for new spring. See, sometimes there are wicked watches that will not run as we want. Good balance and cleaning/lubricating is sometimes not enough to bring them in good shape. Can You evaluate the escapement action? Is there good 'draw' of the lever to the banking pins? Is there wear in barrel bearings or in the bearing for the arbor in the barrel bridge and traces of rubbing on the barrel and the plate?

[JohnR725]

2 hours ago, nevenbekriev said:

Good balance and cleaning/lubricating is sometimes not enough to bring them in good shape. Can You evaluate the escapement action?

What? Cleaning a lubrication isn't enough? Are you suggesting that the word repair and watch repair would also mean diagnostics and then repair before cleaning and oiling?

2 hours ago, nevenbekriev said:

Sometimes there are wicked watches that will not run as we want

Then yes this one I definitely agree with any time you're dealing with vintage watches even if they sometimes show potential that they're going to Run and they're going to do what you think there do sometimes they won't. So technically I like the verify that the watch is going to run before it's cleaned and or and I like the fix any of the problems that I can find before I disassemble to run it through the cleaning machine if I can so things like timing adjustments and escapement adjustments and any of that stuff I can do before cleaning I would like to do it. But even if I get a watch that shows that it's going to be fine the rest of the way there is no guarantee that's going to happen if it's vintage.

Oh and I didn't reread the whole discussion but there is something I was curious about it looks nice except?

Before putting the watch in beat did you verify that the banking pins are where there supposed to be? Yes there movable banking pins and often times because are movable and there in a watch and people like to move things that move them with zero idea of what the consequence will be. So you can't visually put the watch in beat until you verify the banking pins or where there supposed to be.

 

 

[BillM]

Well, being as I am an amateur watch repairer, I can only identify so much thats wrong at this point.  So im sure Ive missed a number of things that are not correct with this watch.  Be that as it may, Im pretty pleased with my first staff replacement and the watch runs now.  
I do not know what “good 'draw' of the lever to the banking pins” means. 
I also have no idea how to verify that the banking pins are in the correct positions, but Ill look into learning about this, thanks for the insight.