Watch working fine but stops before the end of power reserve

[brunomartins]

Hi everyone!

My Omega cal 601 has been cleaned and lubricated, works fine with good beat, amplitude around 210 (~190-220) and decent rate (-10).

however it stops before the total expected power reserve like 30h running back again after a moving a little to wake up the balance  (not shaking).

Wouldld it be a tired mainspring or this is something else?

 

 

[nickelsilver]

In my experience low amplitude and short power reserve is never a tired mainspring. Even blue steel ones. It could be that someone bodged in an actual weaker (thinner) spring that was on hand in the past to get it going and out the door, but if the length is correct- i.e. when you wind from fully unwound you should see about 6 to 6 1/2 turns of the ratchet wheel, it should still hit the power reserve or close to it. My guess is there are other issues causing the low amplitude and eventually the short power reserve.

[brunomartins]

26 minutes ago, nickelsilver said:

In my experience low amplitude and short power reserve is never a tired mainspring. Even blue steel ones. It could be that someone bodged in an actual weaker (thinner) spring that was on hand in the past to get it going and out the door, but if the length is correct- i.e. when you wind from fully unwound you should see about 6 to 6 1/2 turns of the ratchet wheel, it should still hit the power reserve or close to it. My guess is there are other issues causing the low amplitude and eventually the short power reserve.

Actually it stops with power reserve remaining. I just lift it or move incircle and it runs again afteraround 30h

[nickelsilver]

2 minutes ago, brunomartins said:

Actually it stops with power reserve remaining. I just lift it or move incircle and it runs again afteraround 30h

Right- that indicates that there are other issues. What lift angle are you using on your machine? It should be 49 degrees; if you are set to 52 (I think that's the default on the Chinese machines) you will see your amplitude go further down when set to 49. But even at around 210, that is far to low to be considered healthy.

[brunomartins]

3 hours ago, nickelsilver said:

Right- that indicates that there are other issues. What lift angle are you using on your machine? It should be 49 degrees; if you are set to 52 (I think that's the default on the Chinese machines) you will see your amplitude go further down when set to 49. But even at around 210, that is far to low to be considered healthy.

I set 49 and the amplitude had almost no variation. In fact this amplitude is low, would it cause a stopping issue?

[JohnR725]

6 hours ago, brunomartins said:

amplitude around 210 (~190-220)

5 hours ago, nickelsilver said:

But even at around 210, that is far to low to be considered healthy.

1 hour ago, brunomartins said:

I set 49 and the amplitude had almost no variation. In fact this amplitude is low, would it cause a stopping issue?

One of the problems with amplitude is typically measured when the watches fully wound up and as nice as that is that's not overly helpful. What is it like 24 hours later? A lot of it depends upon the watch some watches are relatively linear until the very end others will start off really high and slowly taper down just depends upon the watch. Usually watch companies could care less about amplitude fully wound up they only care about timekeeping an amplitude 24 hours later. Omega is interesting in that some of their watches they can be happy if the amplitude is lower but of course it still has to keep time and run the required amount of time

so for instance Omega specs for your watch is

Now the reference to 24 hours is actually specified as this

So at 24 hours your watch should still be running and the amplitude should be at least 160°.

6 hours ago, brunomartins said:

decent rate (-10).

Then your definition of a decent rate does not fit with what Omega thinks. Typically watch companies do not like negative numbers so as you can see they would tolerate a negative one second all the way to +16 with a target of eight seconds plus not negative. The timekeeping isn't quite right

 

6 hours ago, brunomartins said:

Wouldld it be a tired mainspring

If you service the watch what did the mainspring look like? Usually even set Common with blued steel mainsprings when wound up really nice and tight or fully wound up still can produce decent amplitude typically they just won't run forever the amplitude will usually drop off. Very common with blued steel mainsprings but your servicing the watch what did the mainspring look like?

I don't suppose we can have a picture of the timing machine results a lot of times we might see something in the image you don't. Then just some minor specifications for timing for instance you wind up the watch nice and tight and wait at least 30 minutes and maybe a picture of the timing crown down

Then 24 hours later you can do the same thing and we can see how it looks.

 

[brunomartins]

42 minutes ago, JohnR725 said:

One of the problems with amplitude is typically measured when the watches fully wound up and as nice as that is that's not overly helpful. What is it like 24 hours later? A lot of it depends upon the watch some watches are relatively linear until the very end others will start off really high and slowly taper down just depends upon the watch. Usually watch companies could care less about amplitude fully wound up they only care about timekeeping an amplitude 24 hours later. Omega is interesting in that some of their watches they can be happy if the amplitude is lower but of course it still has to keep time and run the required amount of time

so for instance Omega specs for your watch is

Now the reference to 24 hours is actually specified as this

So at 24 hours your watch should still be running and the amplitude should be at least 160°.

Then your definition of a decent rate does not fit with what Omega thinks. Typically watch companies do not like negative numbers so as you can see they would tolerate a negative one second all the way to +16 with a target of eight seconds plus not negative. The timekeeping isn't quite right

 

If you service the watch what did the mainspring look like? Usually even set Common with blued steel mainsprings when wound up really nice and tight or fully wound up still can produce decent amplitude typically they just won't run forever the amplitude will usually drop off. Very common with blued steel mainsprings but your servicing the watch what did the mainspring look like?

I don't suppose we can have a picture of the timing machine results a lot of times we might see something in the image you don't. Then just some minor specifications for timing for instance you wind up the watch nice and tight and wait at least 30 minutes and maybe a picture of the timing crown down

Then 24 hours later you can do the same thing and we can see how it looks.

 

What a helpful text. Thanks!

Definitely the mainspring is not at its best shape. I mean it has some small dented parts, I tried my best to put in good shape and lub with 8200. 
 

regarding the 24h amplitude I will check it out for sure

[JohnR725]

7 minutes ago, brunomartins said:

Definitely the mainspring is not at its best shape. I mean it has some small dented parts

In a watch all the components more most of them have to function within specifications. If your mainspring isn't functioning correctly as you can see it's going to ripple down affect everything else. What's interesting with Omega is they have a guide for recycling a mainspring as they call it. The mainspring in this case is for an automatic watch little different than yours but the principles apply. What's interesting is if you are working on a Swatch group service center they don't even do this they just replace the entire mainspring barrel because they have an infinite supply of These.

Here's a little section on the mainspring you don't have the bridal parts you can skip that. Notice step number five the mainspring should feel smooth and by the way when you're all through with this you're supposed to wipe it off with the lip free cloth before you inserted him. So in a dance imperfections and other stuff will cause the mainspring not the slide very well at all causes a heck of a lot of pressure in the barrel and if it doesn't slide right well you get no power in you definitely don't run for the required length of time as you're finding out. Based on your description I would purchase a brand-new mainspring as there's no way to fix this.

 

[brunomartins]

Hi everyone!

just came to some updates.

I notice there’s a specific moment the watch stops (hour, minutes and second always same positions).

it seems it’s not (or not only) the mainspring, maybe something else.

this time position (image attached) the watch stops and runs again after some making some moves to wake up 

 

[JohnR725]

5 minutes ago, brunomartins said:

I notice there’s a specific moment the watch stops (hour, minutes and second always same positions).

stopping the same place every time is always good versus random which becomes very very difficult to find

if the picture is of the watch stopped looks like the secondhand may be touching the minute hand. Occasionally you'll find that the spacing of the hands on one side of the dial are greater than the other side which should be but sometimes it is

[brunomartins]

On 10/31/2023 at 5:02 PM, JohnR725 said:

stopping the same place every time is always good versus random which becomes very very difficult to find

if the picture is of the watch stopped looks like the secondhand may be touching the minute hand. Occasionally you'll find that the spacing of the hands on one side of the dial are greater than the other side which should be but sometimes it is

I managed to fix the second hand properly and it the issue has not appered again. Thanks